What is this about Mensans being elitists who want to feel superior because of a high IQ? How do you feel superior about your high IQ at a party full of people with IQ’s just as high as yours? If you want to feel superior you should cultivate the society of stupid people.
None of the Mensans I know are elitist (Hey! watch what you say! your talking about my mother!) They’re just a bunch of people who want to socialize for the same reasons everybody else does (eating, drinking, telling jokes, getting laid).
Do intelligent people have a responsiblity greater than other people to save the world. Maybe. But Mensa is not about doing that.
Hey, what is the SDMB doing about saving the world?
There was apparently more to mensa then getting together and talking about star trek.
You know, the SDMB doesn’t do much to save the world, but sometimes it considers problems that are much more pertinent than silly brain teasers (although we aren’t above solving those too).
Out of curiosity, why would someone want to self-censor their vocabulary? Are you saying that MENSA members have foul language, or that MENSA members have vocabularies so sophisticated that normal people can’t translate them into “duh” speak? Or is it something else perhaps?
Okay, I’m being sarcastic here, but it seems like some unfair questions are being asked. People just like to hang with other people of similar interests. Maybe Mensans really are obnoxious, I don’t know. I just don’t believe that there is any real difference between puzzle-masters hanging out together and golfers hanging out together. The only difference is that people are more threatened by IQs than they are by sporting abilities. I hear people repeat like a mantra the opinion that IQ tests mean nothing. Over and over. It may be true, it may not. I never hear anyone say that jump shots mean nothing, or that jai-alai abilities mean nothing.
If a politician tried to save the world, and mentioned football as part of his past, or part of an informal resume, that would be regarded as an interesting tidbit. No big deal. If same politician mentioned Mensa? “Elitist! Mad scientist! Going to take over the world!” Or something. The smart kids get picked on from grammar school to high school; the little sports stars practically get ticker-tape parades. When, in adulthood, they form organizations for their own kind, the are treated with precisely the same double-standard.
I’ve never been amember of MENSA, nor have I tried to apply. I do have a question: How do MENSANS rank in terms of income vs. the general population? It would seem to me that intelligence would corellate quite strongly with income level.
My parents were members of the Mensa club, but unfortunately I didn’t make the cut. I guess that theory that alcohol only kills the weak brain cells was wrong after all.
Anyway, I really enjoy puzzles and games too, so I just joined the puzzle and game club. What a novel idea, huh? Plus I get the benefit of actually winning at chess and go once in a while.
Off topic, who wants to help me start TAIL? I’ll let you guess: the minimum requirement for membership is 8 inches.
There’s a difference between IQ numbers and jump shots, though. IQ numbers supposedly don’t change much between birth and death. A jump shot, on the other hand, is a learned talent that can be practiced and greatly improved over time.
Being good at jump shots enforces a rule that practice makes perfect. Having a high IQ implies a kind of genetic superiority. Of course you might claim that IQ numbers and jump shot ability are both genetically bounded, or you might claim that both can be improved with time. But the reality is that our culture accepts IQ numbers as static and jump shot abilities as a dynamic.
That’s just because they’re worried if they actually said their purpose was eating drinking and getting laid they’d be overwehlmed with membership applications.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but I’ve never heard Mensans discussing Star Trek. Actually the conversation at the Mensa gatherings I’ve been to has been a lot like this board. Including the Great Debates.
A better analogy might be “Are golfer’s really athletes?”
My point isn’t that IQ tests are meaningless. I just wonder why this organization which, contrary to the impression of many of its members, actually purports to be fostering “intelligence for the benefit of humanity” (according to their web page) but instead just sits around and solves puzzles that have no relation to the rest of humanity and it’s problems.
My point is that they haven’t done anything intelligently to further this goal.
I can’t speak for other people, but I find that when I spend time with my roommates or other people, I have to censor myself to keep the vocabulary simple and comments general. That’s not being condescending, it’s keeping myself out of trouble. If I talk about the Redskins or Survivor, I fit in. If I were to talk about things that really interest me, like a good book I read like “Guns, Germs, and Steel,” or a Asian ceramics exhibit opening at the Smithsonian, I would be regarded as acting “intellectual.” So, as a consequence, I never talk about those things and keep those thoughts to myself. I learned long ago that the best way to get along with people was to talk about what other people like and to keep my own ideas and interests tightly suppressed.
I find the SDMB and Mensa useful because I don’t have to pretend that I’m something I’m not. I talk about things here I would never share with anyone IRL, plus people here are so much more knowledgeable about so many subjects than I am that I learn a lot. Mensa lets me meet people who share some of the same interests I do. Is that so wrong?
This is the first time I’ve tried to do enclosed quotes inside another quote, so I hope it doesn’t look bad when I hit Reply.
Hah! A funny thought. I think more than likely it was just good intentions gone awry, though.
Let’s consider another geeky organization, the SCA. The do their share of carousing, drinking (gotta see if that mead’s authentic right?),and getting laid. However, they still manage to do quite a bit of research and education on the middle ages. There are many benefits of socialization within a group. Granted, socialization is one of the purposes of mensa, but its just ONE and the third one one the list at that.
In response to egkelly’s question about the average Mensan’s income, Mensa states that the average income of members is “slightly above” the national average. I do think it would be interesting to actually go to a meeting sometime and see a very general profile of members, but nothing takes place anywhere near where I happen to live. I spend enough time surrounded by geeks at work, anyway.
Here’s my two cents worth on membership, in my admittedly biased opinion. I waited ten years to join, because I thought the whole thing was pretentious as hell. Found myself looking for a new job though, and feeling under-educated. Wanted something that would help convince potential employers that I’m at least a reasonably smart guy despite my scholastic underachievements. After much debate, I decided that having Mensa membership tacked onto the bottom of my resume would likely help more than hurt. Don’t have any way of knowing how much difference it made, but I did get the job I wanted. Also, their publications seem as though they would make fairly interesting reading, if I actually took the time to go through them (nearly worth what they cost, I would say). Skipping ahead to my point, I’m of the opinion that some members are pretentious, self-promoting bastards who should have been strangled at birth (dang it, I’m holding back again; have a hard time stating how I really feel), but I don’t see how you can rationally lay that on the organization as a whole. Pretty much like any other organization which includes humans. Thankfully, the self-promoting bastards are particularly easy to spot, because they’re the ones who can’t wait to tell you that they’re members despite the fact that you’re not interested. I only know a few other members, but most of them are pretty quiet about it. Most seem to be smart enough to realize that there’s a pretty long list of things that they stink at…
This is just a shot in the dark, but maybe that’s because nobody has every tried to equate jai-alai abilities with intelligence. Yes, if someone said, “IQ tests mean nothing” with no provocation, it would be pretty silly. However, the previous statement is usually said in response to a claim (or at least the implication) that IQ measures intelligence. IQ tests something called “general intelligence” which is a term of art that is synonymous with “puzzle solving abilities.” Unfortunately, people have to be reminded that “general intelligence” is a very narrow aspect of “intelligence.”
Intelligence has been defined as “the ability to adapt effectively to an environment either by making a change in oneself or by changing the environment or finding a new one,” Britanica. Although puzzle-solving ability is certainly relevant to intelligence, it is not dispositive. In our environment (a free-market democratic society) creativity, drive, and socialization skills go a long way to enable someone to “adapt effectively
The best solution anyone has ever come up with is an IQ test. I’m sure if someone thought of a better way Mensa (MENSA? Is it an acronym?) would be happy to use it instead.
At least Mensa only uses IQ tests to see if someone is allowed into their social club. In that context the accuracy of the test in measuring intelligence doesn’t seem very important. Why get upset about Mensa when there are schools using IQ tests to determine whether or not children will be allowed into their gifted programs, something which could have a significant affect on the child’s education?
Do they? I have never met a Mensa member who believed that their membership indicated anything other than the fact that they have a high IQ.
There is a national social club for tall people too; I don’t remember the name, but my local paper just ran a story on our branch a few days ago. The minimum height requirement for women is 5’10". I am barely 5’8". I cannot practice to become taller. My height was primarily determined by genetics, with nutrition also playing a factor. Because of my genetics I will never be able to join this club. This does not cause me any particular pain. I don’t believe that people who are taller than me are genetically superior, and I doubt the members of the club think that either.
IQ scores do change over time. I believe this is common knowledge among psychologists and other people who deal with IQ tests on a professional basis. The general public may not realize this, but it has been my experience that the general public understands very little about IQ tests in the first place. Perhaps Mensa should put some energy into educating the general public on the subject of IQ tests. I suspect that if people understood them better they would feel less hostile towards people who do well on them.
Here’s why I tend to think Mensans are mostly idiots.
Haven’t you seen all the ads for paranormal, UFO, and psychic stuff? Mensans seem to fall for this kind of crap at a rate higher than chance, although I haven’t done a double blind study…
Recent studies show that it is possible to increase your intelligence:
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It is also interesting to note that certain herbs (most notably ginseng and ginkgo) can cause a temporary increase in brain activity, and therefore cognitive skills, due to increased blood flow to the brain.
Well I wish I had the charter of the National College Athletic Association floating around, because I’d be willing to bet that they have some high-minded ostensible goals like “making the physical fitness of all college students a top priority” or something. But I can’t say for sure. I’ll be back later to rap about IQ tests.