Are military snipers trained in physics

[Wesley_Clark]

Are snipers trained in understanding the physics of velocity, wind resistance and gravity so they know how to compensate for wind and distance or is alot of that info going to be taken care of for them by using the (more advanced) sighting mechanism and they just have to plug in info about wind and distance to the sights?

[Scruloose]

This article on miltary snipers from “How Stuff Works” would indicate that they do get classroom training on those very subjects.

Snipers spend plenty of time in school cracking the books and in the classroom learning the principles of ballistics, windage, air density, and many other variables that affect the flight of a bullet. But at the end of the day, it comes down to what snipers call “rounds down range.” A sniper’s most valuable classroom is the firing range. Snipers don’t have time in the field to think about theory. Hours at the range help snipers to apply these principles by “feel.”

[CynicalGabe]

Some keep a small chart with windage info and other variables, so they can quickly adjust their scopes without doing an excessive amount of math.

[justwannano]

I have a copy of the Armys "Sniper training and employment " handbook.
TC 23-14 june 89 for those of you interested in the handbook.I bought it on ebay.
Lots of interesting stuff.
It covers
rifles
scopes
night vision
ammunition
Marksmanship
Fundamentals
calling the shot
zeroing the rifle
weather effects
elevation or wind
Camo
Cover
navigation
sniper positions
target selection
records
range estimation
A lot of stuff on employment
field training
measurements
and a lot of other stuff.

Lots of practical stuff but not at all like college physics.

[CynicalGabe]

@justwannano

Lots of practical stuff but not at all like college physics.

I doubt snipers spend all of their time staring at the redhead girl in the front row.

[Roadruner]

Slightly off topic - can sniper rifles have silencers? You see the Hollywood sniper with rifle with scope and silencer hitting targets miles away. I only know stuff from Discovery type channels so am under the impression that a bullet has to “work” its way trough a fitted silencer and to be subsonic. This surely would not be ideal for a long distance sniper shot. Is Hollywood wrong again?

[DWMarch]

@Roadruner

Slightly off topic - can sniper rifles have silencers? You see the Hollywood sniper with rifle with scope and silencer hitting targets miles away. I only know stuff from Discovery type channels so am under the impression that a bullet has to “work” its way trough a fitted silencer and to be subsonic. This surely would not be ideal for a long distance sniper shot. Is Hollywood wrong again?

IANAS (I am not a sniper) but I would imagine that if a military sniper has you in his sights the noise isn’t going to matter because the bullet will get there around the same time, if not faster. I doubt snipers would bother with silencers on the theory that if you can’t kill it with the first shot there’s no point trying again…

[theLaughingMan]

IAANAS(I also am not a sniper) but silencers require subsonic ammo which would decrese both the range and velocity of the round. It would be pointless to try to shoot a bullet 1000meters if it’s just going to bounce off your target. You couldn’t use flash hiders either as oddly enough they would cause you to be more visible to any enemys looking your way.

[theLaughingMan]

oops flash hiders should be flash suppressor

[caligynephobia]

A silencer doesn’t necessarily require subsonic ammo - with supersonic ammunition, the silencer only attenuates the sound of the explosion at the muzzle, not the “sonic boom” (cracking sound) the bullet creates as it flies through the air. To eliminate that sound, you do indeed need subsonic ammo. On submachine guns I’ve seen integral silencers where expanding gases are ported off the barrel into the silencer (which is part of the gun), reducing the oomph behind the bullet and rendering a normally supersonic bullet subsonic. Attenuating only the muzzle explosion makes it difficult to identify the source of the gunshot, though there are tools developed to do it from the sound of the supersonic bullet alone. Back to silencers on big rifles, a couple companies make them in the US. I understand that in parts of Europe, using a silencer is considered being a good neighbor. In the US there is a popular conception associating them with criminals, paranoid white guys and hit-people so the law creates some barriers to civilians owning them. Not too big of a deal; $500 and a background check IIRC, but still a hassle. Obviously the military and law enforcement agencies don’t have to worry about that.

[mhendo]

@DWMarch

IANAS (I am not a sniper) but I would imagine that if a military sniper has you in his sights the noise isn’t going to matter because the bullet will get there around the same time, if not faster. I doubt snipers would bother with silencers on the theory that if you can’t kill it with the first shot there’s no point trying again…

I don’t think he was worried about whether the target would hear the shot; i think he was more concerned about not giving away the snipers position to other people who may be in the area.

[caligynephobia]

IANAS, etc. I had to write a paper on this stuff back in school.

[Scruloose]

Berkut posted this video link in another thread. It compares super/sub-sonic ammo through a silenced rifle.

http://www.swrmfg.com/video/omega1.asp

[jester21]

wouldn’t Breathing Method and Trigger Squeeze be considered a part of physics?

[jester21]

T-1000

There are better links out there… do a google search for keywords: Armed Robots or Robots Iraq or SWORDS or TALON, i tried to find one from a ‘reputable’ news source, but i couldn’t find it on CNN.com

[Chairman_Pow]

@theLaughingMan

You couldn’t use flash hiders either as oddly enough they would cause you to be more visible to any enemys looking your way.

[Chairman_Pow]

@justwannano

I have a copy of the Armys "Sniper training and employment " handbook.
TC 23-14 june 89 for those of you interested in the handbook.I bought it on ebay.
Lots of interesting stuff.

Lots of practical stuff but not at all like college physics.

This the book? Interesting.

[justwannano]

@Chairman Pow

This the book? Interesting.

That one is more complete and superceds(sp) mine.

Darn. If I’d have known about that one I’d not have bought this one

[theLaughingMan]

@Chairman Pow

Not my text but from a site who’s info seems valid

Flash suppresors on sniper rifles. Unfortunatley the more correct term would be “muzzle blast enancers”. When a sniper is trying to fire from a concealed position he creates a “window” for the blast path to travel through. This window is very small at the muzzle and many times the sniper will put his muzzle into the window and use the depth of concealment to his front to conceal his blast. The blast pattern is very small near the muzzle and it widens to a couple of feet in width at about 6-7 feet. (Anybody ever measure this? Wait, I know Rick has because HE is the keeper of all sniper knowledge!) When you slap on a muzzle blast enhancer, the pattern is now huge at the muzzle which tends to blow the shit out of the snipers cover and concealment.

Which makes sense to me. Instead of the blast being long and narrow it becomes a giant flat disk around the barrel. I have never verified this in real life though.

[UncleBill]

I have verified it. The M-16A2 flash suppressor, when the muzzle is near some loose dirt, kicks up quite the cloud, and shakes any surrounding foilage enough to catch the eye of an observer. A sniper’s nest typically would have a “tunnel” of clear vision to the target from the shooter, but the muzzle would be inside that tunnel, not peeking out. A flash suppressor would shake up the area around the muzzle.