Or are they just overheated?
Look at them here.
It is probably 90 here today. This is a new hive, started May 6 with 3 pounds of bees and a queen I had shipped from California. They have not filled the top bar hive yet, but about 2/3 is open to them and about 80% of that volume is full. There are even a couple of empty bars. I have been thinking I need to add some more ventalation to the hive. Anybody have thoughts?
Well, to update my own thread, they all went back into the hive when the temperature dropped, so I guess they were just hot. I am going to try adding ventilation holes to the hive, maybe drill a couple of 1/2 holes above the entrance near the top of the hive and cover them with screen or something. If there are any apiarists on site, I would be grateful for an opinion…
Can’t say I’ve seen them cluster like that outside the hive. I’ve also never seen a hive like that. Mine have always looked like the one on this page (link). Do you have trapezoidal frames in it?
What is a “top bar hive”?
I’ve never provided extra ventilation. The only opening I’ve ever had is at the base of the front. The bees seal up any cracks with propolis, and I imagine they’d do the same with any drilled holes.
A top bar hive is a have typically used in Africa. It is said to be healthier for the bees and less prone to mite infestations. Less honey production though. I think they might just seal the holes too. I am not sure what I am going to do…
There are no frames inside, the bees build on the top bars. Good picture here.
Thanks for the reply Ruken.
I’m learning all sorts of things. I should have punched the top bar thing into google, as there’s plenty of info there. I had no idea that the type of hives I’ve had even had a name. Langstroth, apparently.
I suppose you could try drilling some screened holes. If the bees don’t “want” it then they’ll seal it up. It looks like this top bar design would have less ventilation problems than and giant stack of supers. You’re using the typical Italian or Buckfast hybrids? I think they can stand pretty high temperatures. I’m not sure where you are, but people use those in the US Southwest without problems AFAIK.
I’m assuming the brood section is in the front, and that you can expand the hive by simply making it longer. Any idea if there’s a length limit? I ask because you can get a freakishly large amount of honey depending on where the bees are situated. We got 80 lbs off our first harvest*, and there’s no way that all would have fit in there.
*not through any skill on our part. 10 acres of wildflowers with insufficient local pollinators will do that.
Nice top-bar. And no, your bees are not swarming…probably. It looks to me like they are just hot. They will do that in my Langstroth hive on a hot day so I always figured it was just to cool off. They will stand there and fan their wings to circulate air.
Do you have a screened bottom? I built a top-bar this year and have the whole bottom screened (which I would not recommend) but some ventilation is necessary I think.
I have wild honey bees in a bee tree on my farm. It’s a cedar tree, so I’d imagine the honey is pretty nasty. The bees have been there for many years, as long as I’ve owned the property (5 years) and probably a lot longer. It would be cool if they were in a neat box and I could dip into the honey when I wanted. If I got a hive is there any chance they’d set up housekeeping?
StG
Do you have a screened bottom board? That is supposed to allow for much better ventilation. Of course now is the time of year when most of the nectar flow has ceased, but the hive population is still at peak numbers, so you’ve got a lot of bees with nothing to do but hang out – literally.
-rainy
This what I thought. Worse case, they propolize the holes. Anyway, the bees are Carniolan. I chose them because they have a reputation for being unaggressive (I have young daughters) and also they are supposed to overwinter well. Being just outside Denver, it is not unheard of to have some pretty cold weather though it has been pretty warm the last decade or so.
The brood, from what I have read and so far seen, do tend to stay near the entrance. I am sure hoping that it stays this way, as there is no queen excluder and you can’t centrifuge the comb like you can with a Langstroth hive. This is a new hive so I am not sure how it will play out. As far as length, I don’t know if there is a limit. I hear that if a space is too big, they will not build a hive there and they will leave. Mine is ~ 4 ft long with a trapezoid ~ 24" at top and 12" at bottom about 12" tall. They have filled about 3/4 of this volume in 6 weeks. Busy bees! As far as production, from what I understand top bar hives produce 0.3-0.5 of what a Langstroth hive does. But 40 lbs would be awesome!
Thanks. Got any pictures of your hive?
No screened bottom. I never saw this in my reading, why is the bottom screened, just for ventilation? Or do you have a tray to catch mites? Regarding ventillation, I have had people tell me its not necessary and others say it is. I am not sure what to think, but I am sure it will sort itself out.
I am sure the honey would be fine. Bees are meticulous creatures and they would not let the honey be contaminated with cedar. Since they have been there for years they have probably coated the entire inside with propolis at this point. I am sure you could set up a hive. Best way would be to wait until they swarm and grab it and drop it in your hive. You could also go into the hive and pull the queen out with a bunch of the comb and put it in your hive. I am not too sure how this would work out, but it should work.
Yeah, hang out and eat my honey… Should I feed them? No board in my hive. Next hive I build I will be sure to add this. I was thinking about rebuilding the hive body complete with the removable bottom board and then just moving over the top bars, but it all takes time. I probably won’t do anything until next spring.
What is the best time to harvest honey? Now?
I guess it’d be best just to let my bees do their little bee-y thing and live how they’re accustomed. I eat very little honey anyway.
StG
Bees are amazing creatures aren’t they? As long as you have an entrance and an exhaust port, they will adequately keep their home at a comfortable temperature. You can tell when it’s too hot by what they are doing. See the line of bees at the entrance fanning? If you inspected your hive you’d see lines of bees circulating air to dry the honey and keep their hive at an even temperature.
I don’t have any experience with top bar hives either, all mine are Langstroths. It seldom gets too hot for them here, but on the rare occasion I notice a problem, I just cock the lid a bit for more ventilation. You don’t want to make the openings too big, because then they expend too many workers in defending the hive from invaders.
If it was me I’d just provide some shade by maybe leaning a sheet of plywood against the hive, or move the hive to a more protected location.
Alas, I’m too lazy to take pictures and figure out how to post them. My top-bar isn’t anywhere near as pretty as yours though. In fact, I painted it an ugly brown to blend in with the trees and scrub, so the neighbors won’t notice.
I built the bottom screened because that is what I know - having used screen bottom boards on langstroth hives before. The idea is to help control mites and allow ventilation. In the end it was too much ventilation, I think, as the whole length of a top-bar is a lot more ventilation than the smaller bottom of a regular hive. The first package I installed just up and left - I believe because the the wind was too high for them - and I had to get a nuc and install that.
I’m not sure what to make of the whole venilation thing. One problem with top-bars is when they get too hot, the comb can collapse. I don’t want that so maybe I’ve gone too far the other way because I’m already worrying about how to keep the warm through the winter with that big open bottom.
The purpose of the screened bottom board is to allow the mites that periodically fall off the bees to fall on through all the way to the ground. Supposedly, they cannot reenter the hive from there, so they are eliminated from the hives mite load instead of merely climbing up the inside walls of the brood chamber to hop onto another bee.
The increased ventilation is just a nice side benefit.
Wow, I have never heard of comb collapse. Is this really a danger? I am going to lean the plywood over the hive like bare said. Good idea, thanks!
In a top-bar the bees can lay the comb across the bars if you are not careful in guiding them somehow - if you know what I mean. They are supposed to hang the comb centered on the bar but they don’t like to do it straight I have found. So, if you pull out a bar, and the comb is built across the bars, it can tear and if it’s a hot day and the comb is soft it can just collapse. It happened to me this weekend when I tried to straighten the comb on a bar and half of it just fell off. The big problem is with new comb, or so I have read. Older brood comb is stiffer and lighter too. New comb filled with honey is heavy.
Can’t you add wire to support the comb in a top bar, similar to the way you have wire supporting the wax in a langstroth?
I really like plastic foundation for this reason. But the mite resistance offered by the smaller ‘natural’ cells is intriguing to me.
This thread… THIS thread… neatest thing I’ve read all day.
