Are non-human animals all our natural slaves?

Our superior intelligence allows us to essentially do with them as we will within the limits of what social conventions will allow. Are less intelligent animals, by nature, our subject slaves to the extent we can manipulate them for food, clothing, medical testing or labor etc.

Is every non-human creature on earth an inherent and natural slave to and for man?

If a more intelligent species than man arose out of the human genome, or a more intelligent species came to Earth from the stars would we, by right, be their natural slaves, and a resource to use as they saw fit? How could we complain (philosophically) if that is they way they saw things?

If you’re a Judeo/Chrsitian/Moslem, you can look to Genesis where we were given “dominion over all the beasts” or something like that.

If you’re an evolutionist you could say that we outsmarted the rest of them (except the rats and various other organisms, single and mlti-celled that have latched onto our coattails) so, yes.

As for your 3rd paragraph, there is ample evidence that this already happened, re: the demise of the Neanderthals. Difficult if not impossible to prove, but a very good possibility.

Let’s hope the alien buggers don’t find us…

I´ve got a gut feeling that the term “slave” is not appropriate for this.
Are insects slaves of mammals? I don´t think so; being higher in the food chain doesn´t grant propietary rights on the lower stacks.

And superior intelligence my socks, that´s not necesarilly the requisite of a more evolutioned specie. Species don`t aim at higher IQs on their evolutionary paths; just at what makes them more fit to survive.

“Are insects slaves of mammals?”

Actually it’s usually the other way around. re: Mosquitoes.

You might try to think of one animal, particularly predators, that does not fully exploit every other animal that it possibly can.

But we do recognize, at least in most 1st world countries, that you cannot be unreasonablly cruel to animals. And I believe there are special laws prtecting primates.

I regularly beat and whip the mites who live in my eyelashes! They cannot marry unless I say so! They are slaves!

Seriously, we have some symbiotic and other relationships with animals, and thanks to technology we have started to exploit some animals in the last century or so.

I don’t think there is any such thing as a natural slaves - unless you count younger siblings. However, there is certainly a risk if these more intelligent creatures show up one day. Human history suggests that until recently, humans did what they could to enslave, en-serf, or en-chattel their fellows. The general idea is that we haven’t quite eradicated that tendency in ourselves. Why expect our alien overlords to have better morals?

Slavery really isn’t the word to describe the relationship between a human and a farm animal - this is domestication.
The natural world is full of hunters and hunted- there is no way to avoid that, and both parties are free in that situation- when humans begin to domesticate animals, they have a duty of care for those animals.
Similarly the super-intelligent aliens would not enslave us, so much as domesticate us, and we could hope for good treatment but not demand it.

The possibility exists that the super-intelligent aliens would make it possible for humans to become super-intelligent too, and join equally with them in their society.
This is the best we could hope for, but it seems unlikely that we could demand such treatment.
(In the worst case scenario they might want to eat us - this is quite unlikely as their biochemistries would probably be very different to ours - however they might be able to get round that using advanced culinary techniques, spices, monosodium glutamate, etc)
(It is also possible that we might be able to extend this option to our own domesticated and/or wild animals eventually, and have intelligent horses and sheep joining with us in our community.
In this case we might have difficulty explaining to them why we munch on their more primitive cousins, but I am sure they will understand one way or another.
The future may be much stranger than we can imagine)
(but we can try)


Sci-fi worldbuilding at
http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html

If we call the eating of our domestic animals “slavery”, what then do we call the “slavery” of other men? Cannibalizaism?

Strange world.

I never understood the rationale behind the `evil alien’ hypothesis: Intelligence is fairly rare in the Universe, from what we can see, and it’s interesting enough to other intelligent beings (or so we must imagine) that one would guess that the common behavior when one intelligent species finds another would be a process of exploration and trade.

It’s like stomping on fine gold watches instead of admiring them.

I think is is a question of strategy… faced with an unknown quantity like a hypothetical alien or a country which keeps its policy secret, you have to plan for the worst case scenario.

This policy of paranoia is unfortunate, but seems impossible to escape, even when the players are themselves of good will.


SF worldbuilding at
http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html

If all animals are “inherent and natural” slaves to humanity, then some of them are pretty damn poorly equipped for the part. Take cats, for example. Some anthropologists might tell you that they were domesticated to control rodents (the cats, that is, not the anthropologists); however, they have since clearly been outevolved by the spring-loaded rat trap, and yet they really don’t seem too motivated to pick up any other useful skills. The octopus is another good example–smart though they may be, what good is it to have a slave that dehydrates on its way to get you a beer? Good luck getting a brown hyena or a water mocassin to show you proper obesiance, either. Generally speaking, animals make lousy slaves.

A certain degree of moral dissonance toward the animal kingdom is essential for survival, even if you’re a Jainist monk or something. If you don’t draw the line between humans and other organisms, there’s really no good reason to draw it anywhere else, and soon you’re agonizing over the injustice of digesting your own intestinal microbes. On the other hand, if there’s a way to minimize the suffering of animals in a way that doesn’t adversely affect their flavor, then I’m all for it.

As far as superintelligent mutants or aliens go, well… I think it’s helpful to bear in mind that for the most part, use of animals tends to drop away as soon as there’s a way to do the same job as well or better by other means. In industrialized nations, we no longer rely on horses for plowing or transportation, we don’t use whale-oil lamps anymore, and I’m sure that factory farms will start to decline soon after we figure out how to grow a Porterhouse steak in a tank. Medical research is the same way; animals aren’t used by choice. They’re messy, expensive, and require a lot of care. But at the moment we don’t have any non-animal models that can give us an idea how a given treatment is going to affect the whole organism. If there were a computer program that could reliably simulate all the variables of a biological system, no doubt researchers would be overjoyed not to have to smell like mouse urine anymore.

All of which is to say, if super-advanced aliens show up, and they think anything like the way we do, they’ll have even less reason to enslave us than we have to enslave each other. Yeah, they may have some sort of freaky desire to hunt us for sport, but it’s not like we’re going to say, “Ah, well, we humans have hunted less intelligent creatures for millennia, and now, seemingly, the worm has turned! How ironic! What a Serlingesque turn of affairs, that our species should recieve such a comeuppance!” Hell no, that’s when we break out the action heroes and 50’s-era tweed-jacketed scientists.

j.c., I always love your posts! You have a terrific sense of the absurd! May I call you Mitey Mouse? :smiley:

Human beings have not yet put human slavery completely in the past. I have heard from a few sources that some of the diamond industry supports slavery.

Oops, I strayed from the OP again.

Until Pumpkin can learn to wash my back, I have not successfully enslaved her.

[ul]:smiley: [sup]Yo, astro, how much does it cost to be a PETA member, these days?[/sup][/ul]

You’re dead right- the sort of entity/ies which can travel trillions of kilometres using phenomenal amounts of energy to arrive in our solar system isn’t likely to point rayguns at us and demand that we dig gold or uranium out of the earth for them…
anything like that would be better carried out by their own automated mining technology. (no interstellar expedition would be logistically possible without autominers of some kind or other).

oh, good, you think. But we are not out of the woods yet.

We might yet become memetic slaves to our new masters - in order to reap the benefits of alien technology, they might ask us to worship their alien god, or to subscribe to their bizarre philosophies. Or if they have come all this way to appreciate our primitive culture, we might be condemned to a like making Earthling cultural artifacts for the alien tourist trade-
handmade rattan baskets, corn dollies, Shaker chairs, Matrix DVDs.


SF worldbuilding at
http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html

Suppose the Alpha Centaurians came here and decided to enslave us humans. They wouldn’t be deterred if humans hadn’t enslaved animals. Humans might have a better philosophical right to complain, but we’d still be enslaved, which is the main thing,

Ah, but right now it seems that intelligence is quite the evolutionary key path to ensure survival.

For me personally “enslaving” animals for certain things like food, clothing, medical testing is a necessary evil. All other uses of animals as slaves is making me sick though - like pitting animals against each other and have people make bets.

It was for us, because we did it first. For other species, it was sucking up to us. I mean, do you think that dogs would have lasted this long if they were smarter than us?

As the main driving force in nature is to continue your line, I would say that (domesticated) animals have enslaved us.

“Ah, but right now it seems that intelligence is quite the evolutionary key path to ensure survival.”

Or ensure utter anihilation… let´s just hope that all those TENS OF THOUSANDS of atomic bombs, born out of our superior intelligence, are never used. But appart from that, and looking at the rate of degradation to the environment that we are producing it´s still to be proved that we´re more fit to survive in the long run than, let´s say, sharks. If a specie destroys it´s own enviroment it´s not that fit to survive, isn´t it?

I could, but I wouldn’t. I don’t understand the view that if somone believes that they are the result of “survival of the fittest”, then that means they have no standards of morals or ethics, whether towards other species or to our own.