I don’t have animals or kids. But I know many people who have one, the other, or both. My question is: are people who rail about how everyone should get a shelter animal, but who have their own children (instead of adopting) being hypocritical? If not, why not?
You’re comparing a puppy-mill to an adult woman’s choice to have a child?
No because you can’t give birth to a puppy or kitten so comparing giving birth to a child vs child adoption to buying a puppy from a breeder vs getting a dog from a shelter seems like a misguided comparison from the start.
There’s reasons for wanting “your own” child that would never apply to acquiring a dog or cat.
Why, yes, I am asking about the comparison. I was hoping for a thoughtful reply that explained whether the comparison was valid or not.
Can you elaborate? What are the concerns about breeding animals? And why do these not logically apply also to children?
I am not aware of any place where selling children for profit is considered legal, much less ethical.
As a corollary, people who breed animals with the intention of keeping and raising every offspring for their own enjoyment, are not considered unethical.
Well, a lot of pregnancies are accidental. And I can never give birth to a kitten or a puppy, only a human child.
I rail about IRRESPONSIBLE animal breeding. I think that it’s wrong to deliberately breed for deformities. The smushed in faces of dogs and cats cause the animals to have a lot of problems, for instance. And the conditions that some breeders keep their animals in are deplorable. Plus, I get my animals from a shelter because I’m not interested in breeding or showing my animals, I just want pets.
Adopting a human child might or might not involve meeting one or both parents, and knowing their history. And the goal of raising a human child is much different than that of having a pet. Having a pet means that you intend to take care of it for the rest of its life, or at least that SHOULD be one of your goals. Raising a child means, or should mean, that you’re going to try to raise a responsible person who can take care of him/herself upon reaching adulthood, though of course you expect to maintain a relationship even after s/he reaches adulthood. I have four cats, and I make most of their decisions for them. I decide which food to buy for them, I decide where they live, I decide when they go to the vet, and if they reach old age, I decide when they get put down. I have one child. She’s 31, and she decides what she eats, she decides where she lives, she generally takes care of her own life now, and does a good job of it. She’s a competent adult. My cats will never live independent lives. My daughter does live an independent life.
Most of the people I know who advocate adopting pets do it as part of a belief that most pets should be spayed/neutered, rather than letting them have multiple unplanned litters. Because other people haven’t fixed their pets, there are all of these animal who will be (in many/most cases) killed if not adopted.
So if these people were having litters of their own children while thousands of orphan children were being euthanized because they had no homes, then maybe they’d be hypocrits.
Corollary question: My wife lets our newborn suck on her teats all the kid wants. But, no matter how interested the cats seem with this process, they only get dried cat food.
Are we hypocrites?
Further questions to consider: We are against declawing our cats, but have filed down our daughter’s nails.
Does that make us hypocrites?
Wait. Here’s another one: We’re adamant that our cats don’t go outside, but we’ve taken our kid on walks in her stroller.
Does that make us hypocrites?
Sorry, sorry. One last one. Last week, while perusing the Dope, I found a thread I thought to be fucking retarded, but I didn’t say anything. So would it be hypocritcal of me to mention that I believed the OP’s question to be fucking retarded?
If anyone is getting women pregnant for profit, and keeping the women in squalid conditions to maximize said profit, the way puppy mills do with their dogs, then I’m against that. Especially if the women are not asked to consent to this beforehand, or for some reason couldn’t consent.
Thanks to everyone who gave a useful response that allowed me to understand the issues at hand, instead of just unleashing a barrage of indignant anger.
IMHO dogs and cats grow up to be dependent creatures. Except for a small portion that become useful “members of society” such as working dogs. Even companion animals, like mine, still are only ever going to grow up to be furry toddlers who can’t bring home the bacon.
Children grow up to be useful members of society, except for a small portion that don’t. The converse of dogs and cats.
So there’s a good chance that a new dog or a cat introduced into society will exist solely as a burden or a waste, while a new person introduced into society will be able to contribute in a meaningful way.
(Please don’t flame me. I love animals and I love kids. I hope you all can tell what I am trying to say.)
You’re welcome!
On the day that women can give birth to baby puppies, they would be hypocritical for issuing this advice.
You rock.
You know, there’s a way to be informative without being a rude douchebag. I admitted from the beginning that I wasn’t knowledgeable about the subject.
I shall attempt to restrain my doucheness.
As you clearly recognize by the choice of forum, yours is not a question with a factual answer; it is a matter of values, judgment, and opinion. In my opinion, then, having children is not selfish while buying dogs and cats rather than adopting strays is (or, rather, having children is selfish in an entirely different way). The impulse to reproduce is a natural one necessary for the perpetuation of the species, and at root all morality derives from that which does or does not lend itself to our species doing just that. It would be foolish and self-destructive of us to try to short-circuit the desire to have children among those persons able to do so and to support, nurture, and love them. It would be inflicting psychological pain on them for no good reason.
Moreover, humans are more important than dogs or cats. That is not to say that dogs and cats are not morally significant; I do not believe in being cruel to animals or doing needless harm to them. But I am a member of the human species, and my first loyalty is always to them.
This might be colored by my distaste for dogs, of course. If every dog on earth died peacefully tonight, my sympathy would only be for the humans grieved by their loss, not for the dogs themselves. I love cats, though.
Using ‘hypocrite’ for something a lot of people do generally will get a poor response.
Its worth remembering a very large amount of pregnancies are unplanned for a start. Secondly a lot of people are quite willing to adopt children, its only children with serious issues who tend to have difficulties in most Western countries. And while there may be some level of ‘selfishness’ in not adopting a child with significant problems, we’re talking a lifelong commitment which at times even results in divorce or worse in stress levels and hundreds of thousands of dollars vs a pet, the two are nowhere near equivalent in resources.
Thirdly many people who adopt already have children, ie its useful to have skills in child rearing before adopting, particularly for children with special needs. It doesnt have to be the either/or that you were viewing it as.
Otara
Baby people come out of mommy people. People who have children rather than adopt are making babies. People who pay for pets rather than adopt are buying animals that were produced for the express purpose of selling them.
If there is any confusion about how babies are made and how it is different from buying a puppy, I have a book my mom read to me when I was five that might be useful. (It took me a long time to figure out the babies weren’t coming out the pee hole, though.)