This might belong to IMHO but I’ll try here first.
This morning while driving to work I was cut off and forced to stay behind a slower moving car in the left lane. After passing this driver (on the right), I looked over (generally to see if this guy was angry at me) and I found myself thinking…”Typical! Damn Indian” (as in, from India, of course I was using a less civil word in my head).
I see a lot of this kind of thinking from various friends (from ALL races against other races). Ultimately the only people who get the “evil eye” from me tend to me of Asian ancestry (Chinese, Indian, Japanese whatever) driving cars very badly.
So, other than plain racism (which accounts for a lot of stereotypes I’m sure) what about the ones that really do reflect those stereotyped? I mean, are Chinese people (lets say) really worse drivers than say, black people? Or am I just “seeing” what society has taught me (from various friends and TV shows etc) of the stereotypical small Chinese grandmother trying to see over the dash kind of driving?
I try my best to step outside my stereotype (I’m Japanese) by driving as best I can. I make all my lane changes quick and clean, move with traffic unless it gets really fast, then I quietly move right and stay there. Are these people perpetuating their stereotypes on purpose? Do they really like to drive improperly or am I in the wrong by thinking the way I do?
And this can apply to anyone. When I see a bunch of black kids hanging out at the local youth center at 2 am (near my home, only in the summer though) are they consciously acknowledging that they are creating a stereotype of “typical criminal black youths”? Or is it because of society that I think that way?
My SO gets really worked up when someone cuts me off. All I hear is “damn Chink! And it’s interesting that 7 times out of 10 she’s right in calling that person Chinese (or at least Asian). I’m glad she doesn’t drive though. I tend to brush it off, while she might end up cutting that person off and screaming at them.
I think it’s a little from column A and a little from column B. For instance, there’s a stereotype that black people are good dancers, or least better dancers than whites. And I’d say, as a whole, from my personal observations, the dance thing is bigger among blacks. Black culture tends to treat dancing differently than the mainstream culture; it’s not as associated with making a fool of oneself. Black parties tend to center around dancing and music that carries a dance-able beat. Just from my limited experiences, it seems that white parties tend to center around other things, like alcohol.
Will I be crucified for saying that? Let’s wait and see.
Maybe the Chinese association with bad driving is similar in nature. If there is something present in a culture that contributes to a behavioral pattern, using the term stereotype doesn’t necessarily mean that the pattern is imagined, IMHO. It only gets problematic when assumptions about people are made because of stereotypes, eg if someone was to prejudge you badmana as a bad driver because you “look” like one of those bad drivers, regardless of how good you actually drive. It would also be a mistake for someone to assume that I’m an expert on the latest bootie-shake solely because I’m black.
This is kind of something like what was mentioned in the “Am I a self-hating negro” thread from a while back, and I have a theory. Perhaps most people fall into two camps: 1) those who don’t care about fighting stereotypes and so don’t go out of their way to be anti-stereotypical and 2) those who are unaware that they are perpetuating a stereotype.
The boys who you described may be in the first camp if they are smart enough to realize that stereotypes are disproportionately applied to minorities and cynical enough to want to fight the system by not kowtowing to it. Or they may be in the second camp if they are just clueless.
You with the face, once again, you hae an agreence with me about the first point of dancing/parties. Coming from a black man, I will say you are correct. Now that’s not 100% true as for example if your “black” but come from Sweeden (you’d be suprised) parties might go a different way. But also from my personal observacnes White (and Japanese from expirence) parties tend to be more about Alcahol/Socializing while Black/Latin parties are more about music/dance and socializing.
(I remember the first college “party” I went to, and was bewildered about beer and vodka being everywhere, but no one was playing music or dancing. When I inquired about it, they looked at me as if I were from the moon.)
As for the second thing, I think it’s from camp B more than anything. If the 4 kids were Asian or white, you would not have the same feeling now would you? (even if they WERE in a gang!)
Can’t blame you though. Once after coming from a bar with friends, I walked down the beach and sitting at one of the tables is what appeared to be a group of Samoan “roughs.” Now they could have been playing chess for all I know, but out of instinct I got scared and headed home instead (espically from the way they were looking at me)
I think many stereotypes are based on some grain of truth. There’s a stereotype that whites clap on the 1 and the 3 (instead of on the 2 and the 4). And every time I’m in the company of white people around music, that’s what I see. And the thing is: they don’t even know they are perpetuating a stereotype! I asked a girl one day, “Why do white folks DO THAT?” and she had no idea that what she was doing was “white”. It’s a cultural thing.
I’m indifferent to most of the stereotypes that have been built about black people. I will eat fried chicken without shame. I will get up and dance if the radio plays “my” song. I will show people my childhood pictures featuring me with my glorious Stevie Wonder braids. If someone is offended that I’m being who I am, fuck them. But I understand the fear. One day, a white guy teased me because I was drinking orange soda, something he only associated with black people. It made me feel…I don’t know…weird, in a bad way. And I haven’t had orange soda since then. So maybe I’m not as bold as I think I am.
I don’t like when stereotypes are perpetuated in the media. I don’t like seeing black comedians making a fool of themselves just for cheap laughs. I don’t like movies where there’s a goofy black sidekick. I don’t like when rappers have the played out bling bling persona. In those cases, it’s hard to imagine that the perpetuators are just being themselves. And even if they are, sometimes you just get tired of seeing the same imagery. I like depth and diversity. Stereotypes tend to remove these things.
Well, this is where the stereotype comes into play. I rarely see a “gang” of asians just hanging around outside at night (most are playing pool in the warm). It might be my area as well. The stereotypical asian tends to be the “fast and the furious” type of hanging around riced cars in shopping mall parking lots (been there, done some of that).
Black people, in my mind, fall into the whole party/dance thing as well, with not a lot of drinking (although movies like to portray that part). I associate black people as being less polite (and that’s weird because all the black people I know are very polite!). Yet when I hear of a “bad” asian, or a “bad” black person I catch myself thinking something along the lines of “well, that’s excusable, he’s asian / black”.
It makes no sense why I’ve heard of all these stereotypes. And it’s pretty frustrating when I see Asians / black / Spanish or whatever perpetuating such a thing (whether on purpose or not).
[major hijack] monstro, I might suggest that white people tend to clap on 1 and 3 instead of on 2 and 4 because in standard time as written for classical music and the like, the accent is on 1 and 3. So maybe we clap on 1 and 3 because darn it, we’ve been accenting 1 and 3 for a long time and it’s sort of ingrained? FWIW, I had never really noticed anyone doing differently, but I’m not a modern music person to begin with.
[/major hijack]
As to the OP, I have to think that society is responsible for perpetuating stereotypes, but I have no idea who first created them, though as monstro says, they often come from a grain of truth. Note, of course, that not all stereotypes do this, and some of them are probably plain racism.
Clapping on the 1 & 3 for me feels unnatural and awkward, as it always seems to impart a march rhythm to whatever song is being clapped. I have to really concentrate when I do it (like keep count in my head), or else I’ll gradually slip back into the more comfortable 2 & 4 mode.
I use to date a white guy who was well aware of his 1 & 3 affinity, and he could not keep rhythm on 2 & 4, no matter how hard he tried. Just watching him snap his fingers to a hip-hop song taught me alot about the power of cultural influences.
Don’t know how much you know about time signatures and music theory, but many songs have what is called a 4:4 rhythm (or derivations thereupon), meaning that you can detect a distinct 1…2…3…4 pulse throughout. Clapping on the 1 & 3 means you clap or snap your fingers to the first and third beats of the measure; clapping on the 2 & 4 means you do so on the second and fourth beats.
It’s easy to see the differences of these two actions by clapping to something like gospel music. Go to a predominately black church and I’ll bet you my kidneys they’ll be clapping on the beats opposite to a predominately white church listening to the same kind of music.
yme, many songs have 4 beats to a measure, or they can be reduced to such. As gr8gtguy said, many songs are accented on the 1 and the 3 (the “on” beats"). White people tend to clap on these beats. Black people tend to clap on the “off” beats.
Think of a song like, “When the Saints Go Marching In.” There are 4 beats to each phrase, right? White people will start clapping when you start on “saints”, where the first beat is (The preceding “When the” is on what’s called an upbeat…no one claps there). Black people will clap after “saints” so that the effect is a more syncopated rhythm.
Most rap rhythm is accented on the 2 and 4. If you go to a church where black gospel is played, the congregation will always clap on the 2 and 4. Like you with the face says, it’s a very ingrained habit. When I see people clapping on the 1 and 3, it messes me up. I think the 1-and-3 thing is responsible for the myth that white people don’t have rhythm. They do have rhythm, it’s just different (and strange ;))
I know what you mean. Being in a 1 & 3 environment sometimes causes me to clap on all the beats until I’ve adjusted enough to conform to the majority. At those times, I’m sure I look just like some clap-happy freak, causing people to stare at me.
Strange that after 8 years of music in school (and band and all that) I have never heard of this.
I wonder if it has something to do with the type of music using the 4:4 rhythm. I know I have a urge to “snap my fingers” on the 2 and the 4 and my trumpet playing reflects it.
So thanks for the info…and the hijack! Ack, I’ve contributed to my own hijack…
After listing to some songs, I realised this, I’m a 2 and 4 guy. I’m guess I’m not your stereotypical white guy. I do listen to a lot of rap though, maybe that’s why.
In that case you might be amberdextiorus as fa as musical theroy goes. Like you I listen to hip hop, but also Classic Rock/Heavy Metal which are based on the 1:3 rhythim (Linkin Park excluded) so I can kind of catch both. But it’s weird how the music thing is right. I tried the “Saints” expirment, and both have rhyhim, just a totally different one. Clapping before Saints makes it sound like a classical music piece, whereas after “saints” gives it more of a upbeat tempo.This music thing does relate to the OP in a way. I always wondered if someone proclaming “I hate Rap” is doing it because they are racist aginst the music (or loves Eminimen but hates everyone else,like a local Radio staon here) or just because “they can’t get it.” I listen to both rap and rock, and being a musician I would never refuse to listen to a type of music jus becuse of the enthic background of who made it. If it sounds good to me, it sounds good.
Badmama, about the gang thing. In that case your “sterotypes” are akin to expirence. Where your rarely see 4+ Asian guys hanging out at the rec center in the dawn hours, soyou owundn’t feel as scared. Beingfrom the South and now living in Hawaii, I have seen all shades of people hanging out in the morning, including just the other day 3 or 4 youths with skin heads and wife beaters on. Does that means they were Neo Nazi’s? Mabye not, but I did feel uncortable around tem for a second. BTW Badmanana, you are not the first I’ve heard to say “I picture black people being less polite.” Can youexpail why you feel tha way? I’ve heard a number of people say that, and I can’t figure it for the life of me.
Monstro, that’s intresting about the Orange Soda thing. I kind of went through similar expirences (still do everyday) But instead of giving up what I like, I just adapt. I love my Fried Chicken Fa heezy, but I also like throwing down on Kailua Pig and Lau Lau (Hawaiian foods) as well.
I think the reason I tie in “less polite” with black people is really because of the media. I don’t blame the media mind you. They just show what people want to watch.
I think of movies with black women being pushy and rude and I think I recall that kind of thing when I see it. I can certainly recall some black ladies making comments about not taking crap from no guy and making all sorts of comments about men (to be fair, I hear this from all kinds of women). I guess it just sticks in my mind.
I don’t use that feeling to create any more problems of course. I work in Customer Service so I can’t be rude back. And I get all sorts of people screaming at me. But the ones I end up thinking as “normal attitudes” are the stereotypical “black woman who does her own ‘thang’”.
It might also stem from the feeling of offensive or “in your face” speech paterns. I know a white guy who’s from Jamacia? (I think) who can speak without an accent. But when he talks to my black friend behind me he puts on a heavy Jamacian accent and to my ears, it sounds “agressive” to me.
The fried chicken thing is interesting because although I know a few black guys who like fried chicken, most of the big chicken eaters around here are operated by Middle Eastern people.
Ya know, in my high school years, I certainly thought about what ingrained prejudices I had towards races and ethnicities. But not regions of the country.
Then I visited New Jersey. I thought to myself: Wow! It fits the stereotype (muscle cars, big hair.) Funny thing is, i didnt even KNOW i had the stereotype till I saw the place (infact my first thought was “it looks just like i imagined it would”, my second thought was no, it must have been a stereotype).
Where the heck did I get it from? And the stereotype must have been true to an extent, since it jumped out at me without me remembering it.
