Ah, I found it - by putting a part of the quote in google:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/120299a.html
You should give Robert Parry credit if you’re going to quote him.
April Glaspie did not tell Saddam to invade all of Kuwait. It clearly was a set-up though.
Excerpts from an article by David Figrut titled: Operation Desert Storm: Outright Disinformation Scheme
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/saddam_glaspie.html
This is what April Glaspie told Saddam before he invaded Kuwait:
“We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.”
On July 31st, two days before the Iraqi invasion, John Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern affairs, testified to Congress that the
“United States has no commitment to defend Kuwait and the U.S. has no intention of defending Kuwait if it is attacked by Iraq.”
When confronted with details fo the transcript after the invasion, this is what April Glaspie said,
“Obviously, I didn’t think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take ALL of Kuwait.”
She did not specify exactly what percentage of annexation they anticipated.
Iraq’s annexation of Kuwait was no different than the US annexation of Texas.
(The message board hiccups when I try to use the quote button, so forgive the formatting.)
DRomm writes:
“… whereas great-grand could have and did. It’s a legitimate question, and you didn’t answer it.”
Cecil Adams replies:
“Don’t hassle me about this. Prescott Bush is the subject of interest. The accusations against Walker by comparison are penny ante.”
Geeze, Cece, the QUESTION was, and I quote from the amended column head still at http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030214.html : “Was President Bush’s great-grandfather a Nazi?” That’s George Herbert Walker, not Prescott, not GHWBush, not W.
And the “accusations against Walker” ARE pretty serious. Quote from http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/randy/swas5.htm : “Walker was one of Hitler’s most powerful financial supporters in the United States. The relationship went all the way back to 1924, when Fritz Thyssen, the German industrialist, was financing Hitler’s infant Nazi party. As mentioned in earlier chapters, there were American contributors as well.” Indeed, it would make a fine column if you were to get The Straight Dope on many of Hitler’s supporters between the wars. This transcends party affiliation, though tends to concentrate in the isolationist Republicans like Harriman.
See also http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm . Google is such a wonderful thing…
Cecil writes: “We are in agreement that the hysterical right-wing attacks against Clinton and his family were odious. Where we disagree is over your belief that what you are doing with respect to Bush and his family is somehow different.”
Hang on a second. I haven’t said anything about how this affects George W’s morals or fitness for office, or his daughters or anyone living. I think he’s been a terrible president, but not because his great-grand- and grand-dad helped finance Hitler. I’m not “doing” anything to W here (and have defended GHWB, who fought for the US in the Pacific Theater in WWII), just quoted the record from sixty years ago. W is notoriously reticent to talk about his past or that of his family, and we can see why. Perhaps he thinks that the sins of the great-grandfather pass through to the great -grandson. I dunno. This doesn’t, in and of itself, prove anything about the current Bush, and claiming that finding The Straight Dope about the Trading With The Enemies Act is somehow equivalent to The Arkansas Project only serves to obfuscate matters.
The “everybody does it” defense simply doesn’t wash. The Straight Dope is that George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush were linked to the Nazis, even while we were at war, and for long before that.
I’ve been an admirer of your columns for a long time, Cecil, and own several of your books and even quote you on my radio show now and again, but I think you blew this one.
And how, precisely, is annexation via invasion “no different” from annexation by peaceful voting of the duly elected representatives of both nations?
Gah–forgot which forum/thread this was in. Apologies for continuing a hijack.
You are aware that Iraq and Kuwait were undergoing a border dispute before the invasion, right? And the dispute was very important, since underneath that worthless desert was a whole lake of oil. Move the boundary a few miles one way or the other, and one country or the other would have millions and millions of dollars in oil reserves.
April Glaspie’s comment was refering to that border dispute. The US, in fact, had no opinion about where the boundary should lie. She was NOT saying that the US wouldn’t care if Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait.
And citing Pat Buchanan as a historical reference is kind of…kind of…well, let’s just say it is kind of sad.
Can we please keep this thread on topic? Comments about Iraq, Kuwait, W.C. Fields, and Czechoslovakia are not on topic.
Dear Administrator:
Please delineate the boundaries and future direction of this topic. Can the topic evolve, or does it have to stay within the strict confines of the original column. If the latter, then this topic is dead. DRomm and I have clearly established that the Bush crime family has for 3 or 4 generations armed, financed, and supported dictators such as Hitler, Noriega, and Hussein, and then attacked them using tax payer money, at great profit to the Bush criminal organization. What else is there to talk about?
Please advise.
Lemur: I am kinda puzzled. The freepers on this list clearly defend the Bush crime family despite their Nazi links, yet you despise Pat Buchanan for his apparent Nazi sympathies. Tell me, are there good Nazis and bad Nazis? Perhaps Buchanan is a good Nazi, after all, thousands of Jews in Florida voted for him.
Please advise.
[snipe mode on]
Eggsactly! But just in case you feel compelled to keep talking about it, take it to another forumn.
[snipe mode off]
mystic. You’ve played your game out here about as far as it can go. What I should have suggested, specifically, is that you take your assertions over to Great Debates. Or the Pit. There are people there who would love to debate your opinions about the Bush Family, especially as it concerns the last 20 years(which really wasn’t the topic of Cecil’s column).
I doubt that you could go more than a few rounds over there.
Philbuck: The adminstrator did not specifically exclude Texas as being off topic, so I presume I can respond without risking excommunication. Which two nations are you talking about, the U.S. and Mexico? That was hardly a peaceful negotiation. Oh yeah, I forgot, Texas was part of our Manifest Destiny, so God had already ceded it to us. Maybe we should ask Hussein if Kuwait is part of his Manifest Destiny.
Hey, I am not a traitor, I just love to point out hypocrisy and double standards.
samclem: I wasn’t talking to you. That question was clearly addressed to the administrator. Mind you own business. And what is your problem, anyway?
You’re new here, mysic, and very welcome. Your comments are interesting and thought-provoking. It’s difficult to convey tone of voice in a posted message, so let me be clear: I’m not “scolding” or “reprimanding,” please read my comments as simply factual statements of how the forums work. We have lots of topics, and lots of threads that run in wild directions. This forum is for discussion of Cecil’s columns. We’d like the threads in this forum to remain reasonably close to that topic. Other forums allow much more latitude.
Thus, the allegations of Bush family connexions with the Nazis is fair game, and the discussion can range freely around that. Conversely, discussion of Nazis and WWII is also appropriate as long as it is related to the Bush family (or to other American financial supporters).
However:
-
Other activities of the Bush family (whether as scum or as saints) are NOT appropriate in this thread. There are dozens of threads discussing the Bush family in the BBQ Pit, IMHO, and Great Debates.
-
Other WWII questions (like why Hitler invaded Russia or when Chamberlin died or whether Himmler could have beat Mussolini in a mudwrestling contest) are likewise not appropriate here. Take such questions to Great Debates or General Questions.
OK?
Samclem is not a moderator, but he has been around long enough to know he rules and the guidelines. He doesn’t speak with authority, but he does speak with experience. (And BTW, Sam, please be careful not to cross that somewhat fuzzy line, right? < grin > )
Thanks Mr. Administrator, for your fair and balanced approach. And thanks to samclem for his stimulating challenges. Now here are some interesting observations about George H.W. Bush’s ties to Nazis:
http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0001a/fortunateson.html
"Nazism was more than a joke to George Bush when he was running for President though.
In the fall of 1988, Vice President Bush had to fire several neo-Nazis and anti-Semites from his Presidential campaign. The scandal erupted when Washington Jewish Week and other media outlets discovered that the Bush campaign harbored well known neo-Nazis, including Jerome Brentar, a holocaust revisionist who claims that the Nazis never deliberately gassed victims of the Holocaust, and Akselis Mangulis, who was involved in the SS-influenced Latvian Legion during World War II.8 George W. Bush, the campaign’s hatchet man, fired the Nazis slowly, so as to hide “under the radar” of the media. After the election, four of these came back to work for the Republican Party according to USA Today.9
Once the story was made public, the Bushes quickly dissociated themselves from these Nazi allies. In September of 1999, when many Republicans were calling for Pat Buchanan to resign from the Party for his seeming affection for Hitler and criticism of the US actions during World War II, the presidential front-runner remained silent, hopeful to pick up the votes of the far right."
Once again, Pat Buchanan is a bad Nazi and George Bush is a good Nazi. Please someone explain that to me.
Here is an even longer list of Bush Nazis:
http://www.rememberjohn.com/Nazis.html
"Two months before the November 1988 presidential election, a small newspaper, Washington Jewish Week, disclosed that a coalition for the Bush campaign included a number of outspoken Nazis and anti-Semites. The article prompted six leaders of Bush’s coalition to resign.
According to Russ Bellant, Nazi collaborators involved in the Republican Party included:
_(1) Radi Slavoff, GOP Heritage Council’s executive director, and head of “Bulgarians for Bush.” Slavoff was a member of a Bulgarian fascist group, and he put together an event in Washington honoring Holocaust denier, Austin App.
_(2) Florian Galdau, director of GOP outreach efforts among Romanians, and head of “Romanians for Bush.” Galdau was once an Iron Guard recruiter, and he defended convicted Nazi war criminal Valerian Trifa.
_(3) Nicholas Nazarenko, leader of a Cossack GOP ethnic unit. Nazarenko was an ex-Waffen SS officer.
_(4) Method Balco, GOP activist. Balco organized yearly memorials for a Nazi puppet regime.
_(5) Walter Melianovich, head of the GOP’s Byelorussian unit. Melianovich worked closely with many Nazi groups.
_(6) Bohdan Fedorak, leader of “Ukranians for Bush.” Fedorak headed a Nazi group involved in anti-Jewish wartime pogroms."
A charming bunch of fellows.
I know this is off-topic, but I have to respond to lemur, because he asserts something which is contrary to the evidence. Since the SDMB is all about banishing ignorance, I feel I must set him straight. He states that Hussein and Glaspie were discussing only a border dispute. While it is true that there was a border dispute, the transcript clearly states that they were discussing the annexation of Kuwait by Iraq, which has always believed that Kuwait is part of Iraq.
Saddam Hussein:
“If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (which, in Saddam’s view, includes Kuwait) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States’ opinion on this?”
(Pause, then Ambassador Glaspie speaks carefully)
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:
“We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.”
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/saddam_glaspie.html
Again, I apologize, and promise I won’t bring this up again.
AFAIK, that Glaspie “transcript” is at best- highly doubtful.
However, back to the point at hand. Many dudes traded with nazi germany. For a while, it could appear to even an expert that Hitler was a GOOD force for Germany. The point is- at what time did you “bail out”?
Thyssen “bailed” in 1938, ie he realized the Evil at least a year before some others did so. He recanted his workings with the Nazis. Thus, no real blame should be laid on his plate. He screwed up, but then realized it, recanted, and even paid the price.
Many Americans owned a chunk of some company in Germany when we declared war. These 'assets" were siezed under the “Trading with the Enemy Act”. The question which is critical- was there active or passive participation? Heck, since at one time I had quite a few bucks in mutual funds, i likely owed shares in companies that did some rather criminal things. There is no evidence of active Bush participation after 1938, and certainly none after 1942. At worst, you can charge “Gramps Bush” with trying to make money without looking too closely at the source & method. Hardly a crime, and all too common.
Now- you can look at my posts here- I am no freind of GWB. I think he stole the election… although “legally”. I think his economic polices are terrible. But- let’s not demonize the guy.
Same as with Clinton- this kind of polarization is not doing the USA any good. Sure, this seems to have started with the Religious Right, and their hatred of Clinton- they just could not understand how a man that they thought was so very clearly EEEEVIIIIIIL could be so loved by the majority of the USA. It drove them NUTS. Thus, they started the “anti-christ campaign”. But I agree with Cecil here; the Anti-shrub contingent has seized upon this propaganda method with both hands. The sad thing is; this kind of demonization does not convince anyone but “the choir” to you side- in fact, it tends to make the moderates shy away from you, and into the other camp. Every day, I support both Bill & GWB more & more due to these insane charges.
mystic: I was simply trying to get Cecil to comment on George Herbert Walker, the subject of the question he was supposedly answering. He was, if anything, a bigger slimeball than son-in-law Prescott. (I’ll look up later if both were Skull and Bonesmen, the Yale frat.) For the nonce, I don’t really want to discuss anything outside of Bush progenitors as Nazi sympathizers and financiers. Cecil seems to have pulled the rhetorical trick of pooh-poohing a lesser charge (about GHW Bush) and letting slide the real dirt of various Americans’ support of the National Socialist Party after WWI. As I said before, my suspicion is that Cecil made a mistake and commented on the wrong guy, and doesn’t want to admit it.
What this says about Bush Lite is problematic at best, and outside of the purview of this discussion. (There’s plenty of forums for that…)
Still, for all those who think that examining the real evidence of the Bush family is in any way like the rabid hatemongering lies about Clinton and family, here’s one of my favorite quotes:
“I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends… That if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them.” – Adlai E. Stevenson
DAMMIT, PAY ATTENTION.
Once I said that extraneous topics are out, I meant it.
mystic, a slap across the wrist with a ruler from bringing up Hussein, who is neither a member of the Bush family nor a WWII Nazi. If you wanted to respond to lemur, open a thread in a different forum.
Now I’m not being polite – now you’re being scolded for failing to follow a direct instruction from an Administrator. That’s a violation of the conditions of membership of this Board. Consider yourself warned.
Once more: IN THIS THREAD, YOU STICK TO THE TOPIC. YOU WANT TO DISCUSS OTHER STUFF, GO TO THE APPROPRIATE FORUM.
Yes, I know that all caps is shouting.
I’m just amazed that Cecil actually showed up THREE times in this thread!! Is that a new record?
So does this mean Straight Dope will amend the FAQs section - “Cecil is never wrong”?