This is getting a bit confusing. I was simply asking if there was any data to support the claim you made that “Cro-Magnons of southern France and northern Spain from that very early human presence do appear to be genetically akin to the Basques”. So far, I don’t think you’ve provided any.
The data does not exist in a popularized form. It exists in the form of a batch of technical papers which you can figure out if you have the patience. Yes, the papers are “confusing” because they aren’t written for you; they’re written for other people working in the field who know what all the terms mean.
mtDNA is associated with one’s mother’s mother’s mother’s … mother. (Insert another twelve thousand or so “mothers” if you wish to trace back to the time of Cro-Magnon man.) A similar statement applies to Y-chromosome, for father’s.
I know this is well known. I also know, from discussions at SDMB, that the implications are frequently overlooked. Whatever the difference in relative male/female mobility, it will be amplified exponentially over hundreds of generations when one looks at sex-based DNA. It is the autosomal genetic characters that provide the best overall look at genetic heritage.
Looking at a chart of mtDNA one sees the makeup as roughly similar from Iceland to North Africa and Russia. Cultures trade women. There are exceptions: On the chart the tribes of N.E. Siberia (Evenks, Itelmen, Nivkhs) are seen to have homogeneous mtDNA. Societies tend to be patrilocal; note the sharp break between R1a and R1b groups right in the center of Europe.
As I mentioned earlier, the R1b-L11 Y-chromosome is thought to have expanded at about the time of Bell Beaker, which could lead to an interesting caricature: a race of Proto-Celtic Kings rampaging through Western Europe ravishing the descendants of Cro-Magnon woman! (But at least one recognized amateur expert places the R1b-L11 expansion a few thousand years earlier, so it may be best to wait till Y-chromosome chronology is no longer controversial.)
Twelve hundred ! You wouldn’t believe I got my 3rd-grade’s Arithmetic medal. :smack:
Then give me a cite in an “unpopularized” form.
I’m quite capable of reading technical papers. I do it all the time. I know what the terms mean, thank-you-very-much.
FYI, you might want to know that there was a concerted effort at one time for Basque separatists to promote the 'theory" that they were the true descendants of the Cro-Magnon people. This was an effort based in politics, not science.
That’s what I did, and told you to follow the links if you want to put the whole puzzle together. There isn’t going to be one article containing everything, and nobody has yet written a book summarizing it all as this is rather new. The basic thesis is that at glacial maximum the human population was reduced to a small level principally in what has been called the “Franco-Catabrian refugium” from which the subgroups of the H mtDNA haplogroup radiate out. The first paper I linked was a final confirmation that Cro-Magnons were H (as had been found before but there was that issue of possible contamination); the second was confirmation that the Basques contain examples of ancestral forms for at least one of the subtypes which has been within Europe (u8a is not a common subtype but is being studied here because it is not from elsewhere) for a very long time; here is a paper on subgroups that are confined within the Basque population indicating continuity of that population since pre-Neolithic times; here is a pro-refugium-thesis paper while here is a criticism of the refugium thesis on grounds that parts of Spain on the Mediterranean may have been more important to the post-glacial radiation than the mountains were (not all Cro-Magnons lived in caves, of course, but those who didn’t live in caves were less likely to have their remains preserved, hence our bias toward thinking of them exclusively as “cavemen”). Both this last paper and the u8a paper mention a secondary radiation out from central Europe 10-15,000 years ago when there was still significant glaciation, later than the initial “out of Spain” but still well before the Indo-Europeans. One might expect that even at glacial maximum there should also have been survivors in southern Italy, which was certainly reached by Cro-Magnons, but we just do not find an “out of Italy” radiation.
Sorry if I came across snarky. I was getting the impression you wanted more spoon-feeding than is possible in the nature of the case.
If this was a “pure race” kind of theory, of course that’s bogus, like always (Basques aren’t all haplogroup H, for example, although that’s a strong majority among them). All Europeans are going to have some Cro-Magnon in them, and some later-entering ancestors; but the Basques do seem to have more of the Cro-Magnon in them than most.
Are the English originally from Continental Europe?
How else would we have got here? Sailed all the way from Africa?
Sorry, but I’m not going to "follow the links’. You need to lay out the case, with quotes from your cites, so that everyone reading this thread can see if your statement is correct or not.
I don’t “need” to do anything. I have summarized the technical findings in non-technical language, and shown where to find all the jargon, as well as more literature on the subject, for anyone who cares to delve that deep. I am not your servant, and have no obligations to you.