Good Lord! I had no idea the Irish were so few. I was so amazed I had to look it up. You have less people today than in the 1850’s? :eek:
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I lived in Ireland for six months, and not once did I hear anyone try to blame their life on the English. In school I learned about a great number of shitty things the English did to the Irish while in power over the whole of the island; but the ones I met never brought it up in day-to-day affairs. At all. I think the only time anything remotely related to the “poor me” subject was discussing a trip to England one of my housemates was going to take. She was concerned because she hadn’t been to England before, and was afraid she would be treated badly. After returning, she said the trip was uneventful, and she was relieved for that.
I found the Irish generally to be great people, so I’d say they’re worth a flip and a toss besides.
Well, the OP has not returned, which is a shame because I wanted to mention that, as a first-year law student, I think “Blackacre” is a totally cool username.
I’m a retired English teacher in my sixties and Trinity is still my favorite book of all – after three readings. I think I will go to Ireland before it is beyond reach for me. Maybe I will take my grandson. Until then, I will have to be content with the memory of having seen it from flying over. (Cue “Memories of Green”)
And Yeats makes up for many a misstep.
That comment coupled with what I think is your Irish Gaelic spelling is intriguing. If you have read all of the book, and not just the first 200 pages or so, I am genuinely open to your criticism. Is it historical inaccuracies? Its approach to Collins? What gives?
That’s why “the Irish keep harping on about the Famine” as my racist great-aunt once said to her Irish dinner hosts.
Mass starvation and mass emigration (that persisted for more than a century after it started) tend to sap the population somewhat. It’s on the increase again now, thanks to the economy, which is leading to voluntary repatriation and immigration.
We don’t get taught much Irish history in England, which is outrageous considering its proximity and the effect we had on the country. Eventually reading about it comes as a shock to an Englishman. It basically goes “England fucked Ireland over… bla bla bla… England fucked Ireland over… bla bla bla… England fucked Ireland over… bla bla bla… England fucked Ireland over… bla bla bla… Ireland partially won by default.”
Eh, for a bunch of drunken, potato-devouring, wife-beating, soccer hooligan pirate Papists, they’re not so bad.
That’s the Brits.
Sorry, I mis-typed. I was thinking of wife beating and meant to say “sock her hooligans.”
That movie is like a documentary
Clairobscur
Do you dispute that the Irish and also the Scots placed themselves at the disposal(or at least enlisted the aid) of foreign powers?
Can you name any other nation that would find this threat acceptable ?
Dont forget that earlier interferance in Ireland was largely based upon the invasion by the Normans of England.
In other words, Ireland during Henry II rule was undergoing the same expansionist exploitation as the English had suffered less than 100 years before, it was still a Norman dominated nation.
Its all moot anyway, carrying on some dispute that had its roots just under a thousand years ago and making political capital out of it is just wasted effort, worse, it can lead to harmful yet pointless disputes.
This is a lesson learned extremely harshly by continental Europeans, roll back history to any point of choosing and you restart the Balkan conflicts al over again.
Ireland can look to the future and prosperity, raking over past misfortunes and nestling private resentments aint the way to build that future.
** Calicaun** sorry, that last was adressed to you, apologies to Clairobscur too
I would dispute that the Irish ever associated with Continentals when they were not already under attack (either military or political) from England. (You *might make a case for The '98, but that case would not be strong and it would be the only occurrence.)
While the Irish (whoever we’re calling the Irish at any point in history) have often caused some of their own problems, casting their history as if England was simply defending itself is rather silly. Who in the world was Cromwell defending against? Even the papacy was no threat to him from the Irish.
As I noted earlier, I suspect that the OP is being misled by a rather few Irish voices (particularly when Maken is the source), but I see no reason to re-write history to pretend that the Brits were somehow justified in their conquest (and periodic persecutions or malign neglect of the Irish people).
Well, first off, Tommy Makem is PROBABLY more popular and better known among older Irish-Americans at this point than he is among young Irishmen.
And in my experience, limited as it may be, Irish-Americans are FAR more likely to remain bitter and angry about Britain’s sins against Ireland (and those sins are real enough) than their relatives in Galway or Dublin.
Heck, my Mom (whose father was in the original IRA) will start ranting and raving about how evil England is at the drop of a hat. Meanwhile, my cousins in Ireland (like most latter day Irishmen) seem to like the English just fine. They’re businessmen, they have clients and customers in England, they visit England on business AND pleasure all the time, and don’t think twice about it.
Look, the Republic of Ireland has been indepenent for over 80 years now. Were Americans still hostile to England 80 years after we gained OUR independence? Of course not! And while you’ll still find pockets of anger among the Irish (especially within the older generation), I see no signs that young folks in Ireland today have anything against ENgland at all.
In fairness there is still some feelings about the subject here. Nobody will be shoot on the street or anything but the “Brit/English bastard” tag is still quite popular over here.
The Hitler 11 could play England in footie and we’d be shouting for the nazi’s :o
I’ve seen verbal abuse launched against English people just because they were English.
Mostly low level stuff but it still exists. It may be 80years or so since we got our self determination but it’s not that long ago that Northern Ireland was at the height of it troubles. A lot of Irish people were tied up in that conflict both personally and emotionally. I’m 33 and can remember almost every wall in Dublin having BRITS OUT and SMASH H-BLOCK sprayed on them.
However as I’ve already said AFAIC we won. We are now a free independent country with a strong national identity and a lot to be proud of. NI is still a contentious issue but at least the people up there have way more civil rights than they had in the mid-late part of the last century. They all have the vote and no blatant institutional racism*
- Waiting for someone to come in a argue the toss with this.
Damn, I was still blaming the Yankees. I’ve got to start checking my inbox more often …
Well, there had been a Royalist uprising by Anglo-Irish nobles. That’s what he went to Ireland to put down.
The Irish have provided units for many armies, including the English, the Scots might well have been under pressure from the English, but there is still no doubt that they have attacked England on several occasions, and taken backing from Englands ‘auld enemy’.
As for justification for Irish persecution, there is little or none possible, however, for idiots who claim some dormant connection with Ireland to somehow blame modern day English for Irelands past travails, is just …idiocy ( especially when in all liklehood those ‘oirish’ have at least a similar strength connection to many other nations)
What happened four five, six centuries ago are not the responsibility of the descendants, and this ‘comedian’ is simply using a form of comedy that is so outdated in the rest of the UK as to be almost embarrassing.
It’s comedy that panders to the lowest intellectual levels, its simplistic comedy, and very nearly racist, we stopped the Irish joke humour some time ago, recognising it for what it was, racism pure and simple - there are one or two ‘comedians’ who may use this device, but their entertainment level is aimed right at the kneecap and are regarded as pretty dumb, also called Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning, not too many Brits would wholeheartedly endorse their brand of humour, so why should it be acceptable for the English to be attacked in such a manner ?
If you’re implying that communism, liberalism, and terrorism are in some way distinct from each other, you need to report to the reeducation camps, you commie bastard!