Are the muppets the reason names like Kermit and Grover have become archaic?

In the thread about things that became ubiquitous and then died out, I mentioned names, like Buffy.

But older examples of perfectly acceptable names that have become largely extinct are Kermit, Grover, Elmo, and Oscar.

I’m sure that when you heard them right now, a certain mental imagery came to mind: muppets.

Is that why nobody names their kid Kermit these days?

Teddy Roosevelt named one of his kids Kermit. He was a tough guy. His son was raised to be a badass, and eagerly fought in war.

Now? No Kermits.

Grover Cleveland was a president. Grover Cleveland Alexander was a superstar pitcher.

These days? No Grovers. Unless you’re a dork!

What’s up with that?

It sounds plausible! But I just did a quick wiki search for notable people named Kermit (TR’s kid being the most prominent (btw, Kermit was also TR’s wife’s MIDDLE name!)).

Looks like most Kermits were born between 1900 and 1950. After that, there’s just a few here and there, and it’s hard to say because the sample size is so small, but there doesn’t seem to have been a further dropoff when Sesame Street became well known.

So, at least in that case, it appears to be an obscure family name that became somewhat popular for a couple generations because of one famous guy, and then faded away. It would have had a somewhat old-fashioned feel by the time our amphibious hero emerged.

The only Kermit I’m familiar with these days is Kermit Weeks. If you’re a vintage aviation fan his youtube channel might be of interest.

Well over 30 years ago I was talking with a group of people at a party. One gentleman’s name was Kermit. When asked by someone else how he got that name he explained it was a homage to his great grandfather.

He then said his last name was Orleans which is French, making him Kermit the Frog.

I thought it was funny but everyone else groaned.

The last non-dork Grover may have been Grover Washington, Jr.* (The only famous living Grover I can think of offhand is Grover Norquist.)

*Speaking of jazz musicians with Muppet names, has there been a famous Elmo since Elmo Hope?

I think those were already unusual names when the Muppets started; and may have been chosen for that reason.

Possibly insufficient reason for so thinking: I’m 74, and I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone with any of those names.

While the rarity of the name was likely also a factor, the creators of Sesame Street have said on record that Oscar the Grouch was named after a New York restaurant called Oscar’s Salt of the Sea, where they were once waited on by a particularly grouchy waiter.

I think that the already-unusual nature of the names reinforced the continuing archaicness of the names. If Kermit had been named Bob instead, no one would stop calling their kids Robert. Whereas if a name is already so rare that your only exposure for a long time is likely to be the one name, then parents won’t want to give that already-rare name to their kid.

Some archaic names make comebacks, but it’s an uphill battle for these ones.

In order for a more common name to take a downturn, it would take something pretty huge like having an infamous mustache. And still I don’t suspect that Adolf was in the Tier 1 of German first names or else maybe even then it would not have taken its downfall (see what I did there?)

I don’t know about people actually named “Elmo”, but it’s often used as a nickname for Elon Musk. Though it’s usually used derisively, so I don’t know how much that counts.

It’s also the name of a piece of audiovisual equipment, one of the more common brands of document cameras (though those also aren’t too common these days).

people would keep getting him confused with this guy.

I’ve got a friend named Ernie. He’s heard all the jokes, “Where’s Bert?” “Hey Bert!” “Got a rubber ducky?”

He’s also a junior, but he had no intention of giving his own kid that name.

I was born in ‘76, and the only Kermit I’ve ever run into in my entire life was someone at my grandfather’s senior’s home. Kermit the Frog was introduced in 1955 but I can’t say when he became a cultural icon, but I’m thinking the name Kermit was falling out of favor before that. I’ve never met a Grover or an Elmo though I have met as Oscar.

I don’t think the data bears out the hypothesis that the Muppets were responsible for the decline of these names. I’m looking at the graphs on https://engaging-data.com/baby-name-visualizer, which takes its data from Social Security records.

Kermit peaked in 1910 at about 200/million and was in a steady decline from then until it reached 48/million in 1950, then continued to decline somewhat less steeply to 8/million in 1980. There’s no obvious change in the rate of decrease in the 1970s when Sesame Street appeared.

Elmo similarly peaked in 1910 at 185/million, declined steeply to 67 in 1930 and continued to decline to 3 in 1980. Again, no obvious change in the 1970s.

Grover was more popular, at 1462/million in 1880, decreasing sharply to 230 by 1900, with a slight rise to 309 in 1910, and then a steady decline to 10 in 1980. No obvious change in the rate of decrease the 1970s.

Oscar was the most popular of the four. It was at 2750/million in 1880, decreased to 281 in 1950, and then actually increased from 257 in 1960 to 718 in 1990. If anything, the data would suggest that Sesame Street increased the popularity of this name.

Michael Scott on The Office, after calling Oscar Nuñez “Oscar the Grouch”: “Can you believe he’d never heard that before he worked here?”

Today is the first time I ever knew that there have been humans named Kermit.

When I was growing up, the school librarian’s husband’s name was Kermit. We thought it was mildly amusing, not that he ever came into the school. He was a veterinarian, actually. Wonder if ever treated any frogs. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Here’s a website with a list of all the names of all he characters in the various Muppet television shows, movies, books, etc., and it’s hard to make any generalizations about these names:

https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Category:The_Muppets_Characters

I had a friend named Earnest and we called him Ernie(sp?). Only guy I met with that name, thinking of Bert and Ernie.

Indeed:

I’m acquainted with a teenage Oscar. He seems to hsve a fairly sunny disposition.

I think the second most famous Kermit currently is probably Stephen King character Kermit “Bill” Hodges, Det. (Ret.), who preferred to use his middle name for possibly Muppet-related reasons.