There have been posts about traffic cameras and speed traps. This one is new.
In Michigan if you have all the paper work in order ,when the cops pull you over, but have not signed the back of your registration it is a 75 fine. If you forget the proof of insurance slip it is a 100 fine plus 400$ in court costs. This is with valid insurance and license. A few years ago ,if you forgot your certificate you were written a ticket(25$) I believe, when you brought proof to the police station.
What justifies a multiple of the fines.?: Plus if you have an ink pen and say I’ll sign it now, they won’t let you.
Why do you hate the police? Why are you soft on crime? Don’t you respect the Thin Blue Line that … well you know.
Police departments are like any other organization, out for more people, programs and power. As a group they think their job is important, and that expanding their authority, budget, whatever is critical. Just like the Board of Education, the Police need adult political supervision to prevent them from going too far.
Police departments do not set traffic laws or traffic fines. Certainly, in a small town, particularly one with a substantial source of revenue from traffic stops, there is always a suspicion that the police and the mayor (or village council) are in cahoots. However, the laws and fines to which you refer are set by the state legislature. Unless you have evidence that the numerous separate police departments across the state lobbied the legislature for the new fines (and further lobbied that a significant amount of fine revenue would be sent directly to the police departments), you are blaming the wrong people for your troubles.
The police do in fact have a hand in drafting many laws, as do other special-interest groups. The funneling of fines and seized funds to the police is a very, very bad idea.
Perverse Incentive, more than just a great band name.
Ity still has to go through the legislature. The cops can lobby like anyone else, but they are also subject to folks counter-lobbying.
And, in this case, part of gonzomax’s complaint is about a law that is nearly as old as he is:
Snopes on signing Michigan titles/registrations
True dat.
We are not talking about a crime. legal license, registration legal. insurance paid. Potential 500 bucks fine. Total bs.
Addendum:
Guy at racquetball club went to football game at Ohio State. He got busted for drunk driving. Paid fine , went to court and took care of it. Then he got a letter from State of Michigan fining him a further 2500 dollars. they put him on a years probation ,with a monthly charge and they can call and demand he come to police department for a breath test at any time. They also can drop by his house and do it in person there. The offense was in Ohio and he did all Ohio asked. Is this right?
So far, we do not even know if it is true.
A “Guy at racquetball club”? A news story documenting that something similar occurred would be helpful or a citation to a Michigan law providing for the State of Michigan to impose direct fines for driving events that occurred outside the state of Michigan would be helpful.
(Did the “guy” happen to mention whether or not he was already on probation for violations in Michigan? The rules of probation do, occasionally, extend to all activity, regardless of jurisdiction.)
Yes. If you’re a drunk driver anywhere, it shows you are a potential risk for your home state. What’s to keep you from drunk driving here? Well, Michigan wants you to know that if you drink and drive, you m ight get off with just a small fine in Ohio, but we’re going to kick your ass with more fines and hassles when you come back home.
I have a feeling that this was not the first time your friend was ever caught drunk driving, but if it was, then good on Michigan for stepping up and making the penalties HARSH to dissuade more people from doing this.
Thr problem witrh the idea that Michigan can add a penalty to a crime committed outside its boundaries is twofold: a lack of jurisdiction to prosecute a crime and the problem related to double jeopardy in convicting (without even a trial) a person twice for the same action.
This is why I speculate that (if it was even true) the facts of the case are a bit different and the extra fine was imposed for the violation of a probation for a previous offense.
It is true. I was surprised also. It has cost him about 10k. Michigan had no cost of apprehension and he did no crime in Mich. I do not like the idea at all. The Mich. system was not involved but enriched itself . He has never been involved with the cops before. He seems slightly shell shocked. I have known the guy for about 5 years. This is not an urban legend type story.
Something I dont understand - he had to stop by occasionally for breath tests, and they could stop by his house? What was this to prove - that he didnt drink at all? If so - is there a law that actually can make it illegal for a drink-and-driver to drink at all, regardless of wheter he drives? That is cruel and unusual punishment if something is (patting my whisky bottles comfortingly…)
As for OP - I dont think police departments are getting greedier, its the politicians passing traffic laws who see it more and more as a money making machine, rather than a preventive measure. Over here in old Norway speeding tickets has become astronomical high lately, if you speed 20 km/h to fast in a 90 km/h speed zone you could end up with a 5000+ NOK fine, which is about 850$, even if you’re speeding along a highway with no other traffic. The tickets are also a fixed size, meaning that a poor student would have to pay a whole months income (possibly ruining him) while a rich executive/lawyer/doctor would only be ticketed a fraction of his monthly income, thus not really making an impression.
Does the amount of fine lessen infractions or does it suffer from the death penalty idea . The death penalty has not decreased murder. Bigger fines just get more toys for police and bigger and fancier police stations. I do not know if there is evidence increasing fines works. When the level for drunk driving dropped to .08 did that make the streets safer or just more revenue.
I understand the logic. I am unconvinced that it isn’t sophistical. Anyone got good stats?
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/DrinkingAndDriving.html Heres some stats. Also ut says raising fines,and jailing are ineffective ways to stem the tide. What works.?
What is true?
That some guy made a claim that cannot be verified beyond his capacity for raconteurship?
That a guy was busted for violating probation?
Please provide the evidence that the State of Michigan has claimed a right to impose fines or other sanctions for crimes initially committed in other states.
Interesting…I just talked today with a guy who received a DUI in Georgia over 15 years ago. Just recently, because of the sharing of information, Michigan decided to force him into a 2-day course and demand community service from him. His license is suspended until he complies.
Something strange is definitely going on with the state.
In some states municipalities may get a portion of fines for state offences collected by local police.
The MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949 DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, AND RECKLESS DRIVING Section 257.625 allows the state to use convictions for pior offenses from other states when determining that a person has more than one DUI conviction. In other words, those sections of the law that increase penalties for having been busted more than once will use convictions in other states to be included when reckoning that a person is a repeat offender.
Before I accept some internet anecdote that the state of Michigan has the time and money to go siffting through all the records of all the people in the whole country who have incurred DUIs just to grab a handful of them who happen to now live in Michigan and retroactively impose some new penalties, I would like to see an actual citation from Michigan law or a news report of the event.
Aside from the occasional administrative screw-up, my guess is that the people incurring these “out of state” punishments are actually getting busted in Michigan, recently, then having their sentences increased as repeat offenders.
(I do not think that either gonzomax or crazyjoe have invented any stories; I do suspect that the authors of the stories they heard may have shaved a bit of information when telling the stories.)
alphaboi867, I am aware of the practice (and even alluded to it obliquely in my post). However, I still doubt that the police department, itself, is able to arbitrarily set and collect fines without the cooperation of the legislature or council, or of a court empowered by the legislature or council.
Or the state of Michigan has a greedy police force. I do believe the guy at my club. He is not a goofy nut. Rather conservative ,main frame IT man married with children. Not a partier. He said it was a first offense. He could have told me it wasn’t and for story purposes it wouldn’t have made it better or worse.