It’s not, but i don’t think anyone would say that a domestic fight that ended up with one partner restraining the other’s movements for 5 minutes amounts to felony kidnapping. That’s more in “noncriminal asshole” level.
That’s a reasonable argument, but I would suggest someone that if a man can’t conduct himself with honor and good faith in his most intimate relationships, as well as the kind of symbology he chooses to put on his body, then his promises about policy or issues are worth precisely their weight in hot air. You simply cannot trust this man to honor his word.
I would lay odds that if Platner is elected as a Democrat, inside of a couple of years he’d be a party switcher, or at least a spoilter like Fetterman. He’d enjoy telling Democrats that they’re a bunch of uptight schoolmarms who can get stuffed.
You simply cannot trust a man like this.
The one indisputable strategic concern in electing Fetterman is that he’d break the incumbency advantage of that seat so that it would be more competitive for any Republican trying to retake it. That’s a real thing I don’t want to discount, but I’m not sure if it outweighs the possibility that Platner himself will become a Republican and then be defending the seat as an incumbent.
Sure, but that’s not what happened in Platner’s case. For however long he physically held the door shut, that act combined with the physical abuse that occurred earlier intimidated her into staying in the room against her will for the entire night.
Doors generally open into the room, assuming a bedroom or bathroom. Doors to the outside as well, open inward. She was in the room ergo it opened toward her. Just like yours did growing up and likely the bedroom doors where you live now.
Agreed. No need to embellish beyond the facts with untrue or imaginary information. It was not acceptable behavior.
And here we come to crux. He completely agrees that the man he was in his twenties would not be someone to elect as Senator. That man did things the current version knows were wrong and stupid. He is selling a redemption arc story. Dark times as a result of military service and is not the same man with another nearly third of his life experienced.
Will the story sell? Will it (assuming he wins the primary) at least sell better than Collins’ threadbare lie of being a voice for the center, not a Trump enabler like she is. I hope so.
There was a case recently where a woman was trail-running in my town, and some mentally disturbed guy confronted her near her car, started threatening her and acting awful until some other dudes stepped in and ran him off. He was charged with felony kidnapping because he prevented her from leaving. Here’s the story:
When I described Platner’s actions as kidnapping, that’s what’s in my mind. Physically enclosing someone in a room and preventing their escape seems at least as bad as threatening someone near their car without touching them.
That said, there could be more to the story. If Platner’s girlfriend were physically or verbally threatening him, and he closed her in the room as a way to de-escalate the situation, that’d be very different. I’m calling it physical abuse and kidnapping if there’s no more to the story.
Not unfair.
And doing the best I can to be accurate - from what I can gather under Maine law the scenario of arm twisted, pushing, and preventing from leaving for any length of time, could accurately be called assault and battery with criminal restraint. A misdemeanor not a felony. Kidnapping apparently would require serious bodily injury risk or a dangerous weapon under Maine law and no Federal laws apply.
The cited case near you got called kidnapping class 2 because the restraint was done with the presumed intent of committing a felony (eg sexual assault, robbery, or terrorism). That does not apply in the Platner alleged incident where she says his intent was to keep her in the room until she became calm. Criminal restraint yes. If the story as told is completely accurate yadda yadda.
IANAL. Law folk please chime in.
Yeah, and the story is doubtful. No one else made that claim, the other bad claim was that when they were dating, long before he was married, he drank a lot and cheated on that girlfriend. Three others said he was good.
If we consider the source- not even that, and we have now 5 other women, plus his wife, none of whom mentioned him doing anything physical abuse.
And that is from a MAGA operative, thus- no, we dont beleive it.
Wait, where did the “Lock in a room” bit come from? And again, this was from a known republican operative. Since when do we believe trumpists?
They do when it is politically expedient for them to lie. Remember- active conservative Republican- and six other women did not mention anything like that.
No, he didnt do anything like that. A MAGA operative is swiftboating him.
Let me make this clear-
It did not happen, she is lying for political reasons. Six other women said otherwise.
So an improvement over Susan Collins, then.
She’ll age out of the senate long before he will, though.
There is absolutely no basis for your certainty, and it is frankly pretty awful. I understand not taking her word as gospel, but declaring she is a liar is not OK.
I’m seriously curious why you would write this? I’ve listened to interviews, watched town hall recordings, read the investigative reporting, ad nauseum. I don’t see where this comes from but happy to be educated.
^ Republicans have cornered the market on chuds so exhaustively that anyone with any chud tendencies at all seems like they’re guaranteed to be a Republican.
We already went over this:
And this, FYI, is exactly why so many claims of abuse and sexual assault go unreported. Thank you for the live demonstration.
I mean, the type of “chud” being alleged here is at odds with any sort of progressive platform.
But mostly he just comes off as slimy and untrustworthy. Those aren’t qualities people want in a representative. People are just thinking about the worst ways he could betray us.
On one hand, policy and ability to win are the two things I actually care about. Character only comes in after those two are met. On the other, I constantly point out the level of distrust lying causes. I can’t really strongly argue against the idea that he isn’t a trustworthy candidate.
Now I’m not sure how big this is on its own. But the Nazi tattoo and appearing with white supremacists is still hanging around his neck, even if it wasn’t enough to sink him. And now he’s lost all the “believe women” people, those who will call you a misogynist for even suggesting that maybe she might be lying for political reasons.
I actually think it’s unlikely he carries the women’s vote against Collins after this. Too many people know what domestic violence is like, and the ones who don’t care tend to vote R, not D. And women’s votes tend to be quite important for Dems. At the end of the day, what matters is how many votes he’s lost, not what I personally believe.
I’ll repeat my FWIW: I believe she is telling the truth as she remembers it from a dozenish years ago that was an emotionally hard time in her life. If she was swift boating him I don’t think she’d have been as clear that he never hit her, and that it was once that he pulled her hard by the wrist and once that they had that fight that ended by him shoving her in the room until she was “calm.” She’d have made up a more clear pattern of an abusive relationship I think. Not this stuff, that for a couple drinking together, at least him regularly to excess, both at bad points psychologically, him with PTSD … seems like within a very consistent with his self description range?
(Again his honest recollection of trying to get her out of the car might not include pulling her very hard, the door thing could have been so brief in the moment that it was lost in his memory of the same night, which might be full of what her behavior was.)
I don’t take anyone’s recollection of emotionally laden events from a dozenish years ago as necessarily objective truth. But I also don’t think she is lying. Maybe selectively recollecting, but not lying.
But definitely yes. There is this one person claiming this event, trying to pull her out of the car by her wrist, and grabbing her roughly when drunk. Other past girlfriends do not tell of anything that reaches similar levels. A few think he was a jerk and share that he cheated on them while dating, a few think he was great.
True no corroboration of her having told friends at the time, she explicitly says she did not, and no subsequent pattern of anything worse than being a jerk and not faithful in dating relationships. So not as believable as it would be if she wasn’t a GOP operative, or had told others at the time, or if it was part of a consistent pattern. But having confidence she is lying? No basis for that IMHO.
That said again:
No actual allegations of abusing women.
No accusation of a felony crime (misdemeanors alleged yes).
Abuse allegation is one woman’s recollection of an argument that ended with his twisting her arm, shoving her, and holding a door shut on her. Not a regular pattern of abuse alleged in that relationship nor any alleged by anyone else.
Bad romantic partner - apparently including to recent times what with sexting while married. Meh. I don’t particularly want to know what goes on or doesn’t in intimate relationships. I don’t care which president had affairs.
Yes. To recap most concisely: you made it up.
Agreed for me as well: does his redemption arc story sell better than Collins’ fiction of independent centrist? Would Mills do or be better?
I’m starting to see things this way (in spite of recommending a while back that Maine Dems should ‘hold their noses’ and vote for him.)
Janet Mills is 78. Susan Collins is 73. If it were Mills versus Collins there wouldn’t be much opportunity for “she’s too old” to be a factor in general-election votes.
Though it might be a factor in general-election enthusiasm, admittedly. There is the danger that Janet Mills’ past problems with fund-raising would be reflected in potential voters just not bothering to vote.
That’s the problem that Platner was supposed to be the solution for—he would energize voters that wouldn’t normally bother. That still may be true. But now there appears to be a corresponding problem—female voters who decide to just sit it out (as @BigT suggests).
Some have said that the problem with Mills is not just age (even though it would be “78 vs. 73” as mentioned), but that she’s too “demure.” I’m not sure that is fixable. She’s not going to start taking testosterone supplements and challenging people to cage fights.
But if every eligible Maine voter who dislikes the Trump Regime could be made to understand that getting to a Democratic Senate is paramount, then that would solve the dilemma. Is there any chance of that message getting across?
If Mills somehow wins more power to her.
But using Claude to fetch numbers for me Mills was brutally underwater with Independents when last polled:
By party:
• Democrats: 78% favorable, 13% unfavorable
• Republicans: 8% favorable, 87% unfavorable
• Independents: 29% favorable, 52% unfavorable
By 2024 presidential vote:
• Trump voters: 9% favorable, 85% unfavorable
• Harris voters: 80% favorable, 10% unfavorable
Overall: 44% favorable, 47% unfavorable
Collins too:
Collins: 18% favorable, 66% unfavorable among independents
Platner? Last polled before the NYT article:
Platner: 41% favorable, 39% unfavorable among independents — essentially a wash, with 10% no opinion and 10% never heard of him
And in head to head, again before the article:
• Democrats: Platner 84%, Collins 8%
• Republicans: Collins 87%, Platner 9%
• Independents: Platner 37%, Collins 28%, undecided 28%
So dunno?
Either candidate the D ads will be trying to make it a referendum on Trumpism and on Collins as his toadie.
And turnout probably will be driven by that on the D and R voter sides.
Independents?
They already dislike Mills. They won’t suddenly like her.
The undecided Independents? Even if they all broke to unfavorable of Platner he is still better off than she has been with the group.
Platner is the only one of the three who has been net positive favorability among Independents. Independents are a larger voting block in Maine than either self identified Ds or Rs and they overwhelmingly believe the country is on the wrong track.
My WAG is that they want to vote for someone who is not old and more of the same. Mills has little chance of getting their vote which is apparently why she fizzled. I expect D voters to come out as anti Trump no matter what. MAGA voters to come out no matter what. And that his redemption arc story will sell well with the Independent crowd. He at least has a chance at winning them; Mills has none.
I made what up?
Eta: since a mod already addressed the “made up” portion of this, I will just go ahead and make my position perfectly clear.
No, I am not claiming that he put his girlfriend in a room and then mechanically locked the door. But what he did do - physically hold a door shut to prevent her from leaving the room he’d shoved her into - is equally heinous. It’s a distinction without a difference. I fully stand by the phrase “locked up” to describe that situation and I think that anyone that quibbles with it is one, being silly, and two, was never in such a situation or had to get a loved one out of such a situation.
Moderating:
This is nigh-indistinguishable from accusing a poster of lying. Counter with cites or links to earlier posts, even if you’re angry/frustrated. I know tensions in the thread are high, but do not do this again or it’ll be a warning.