Doesn’t it feel weird to have to explain this to adults, and then to be argued with?
Absolutely. And in the coffeeshop I worked in college, being even a minute late would be cause for you to lose your share of the tips. And it was enforced, although most shift managers (including me) would give you 5 minutes’ grace. Anything beyond that, sorry, you lose. Made the whole coffeeshop run a lot smoother and minimized any employee tension against people with habitual lateness.
But, in the few offices I worked in, punctuality was not strictly enforced. When I temped, I would push and push to see how much I can get away with. One office it was clear you were required to show up on time and not a minute late, two other offices I was able to slowly wean my start time from 8:00 a.m. to almost 9:30 a.m. before anyone really noticed.
I now run my own business, and I simply cannot afford to be late to any appointments, period, unless I want to piss off people and lose business. Personally, it drives me crazy if I make appointments and clients show up ten, fifteen minutes late, but I really can’t say anything since I’m trying to sell my services to them.
Here in Panama, it is quite cheerfully acknowledged that local expectations for punctuality differ from those of Anglo/northern European culture. Most large meetings start anywhere from 15 minutes to a half hour later than scheduled; this is so ingrained that I make it a practice to arrive at least 20 minutes late, and have hardly ever missed any opening remarks. Parties won’t get going until at least an hour or two after the invitation time.
For mixed events, it is quite common to inquire whether the specified time is “Panama time” (show up whenever) or American or English time (“hora inglesa”, or on the dot), just to know what expectations are.
I have a good friend from England who has lived in Panama for about 30 years and is married to a Panamanian. When I moved here some years ago, he invited me to dinner and said he would pick me up at 7 PM “a la hora inglesa”. He emphasized this several times.
When he finally showed up after 8, I knew he had gone completely native. 
That’s gotta be expensive. I once worked at a place in New York where half of the people in a meeting would show up on time, and half would saunter in 15 minutes later. So, you had a room full of highly-paid technical and professional people sitting there with their thumbs up their asses waiting for the stragglers. As an uptight jerk myself, this really ticked me off. Since one of the latecomers was often the CEO, we were just left there to burn salary until she deigned to drop by. I hated that place for a number of reasons, and this was high on the list.
Yes, it is a certainly a problem with regard to productivity. This is sometimes a topic of discussion among Panamanians themselves.
But of course, it’s only a problem if half the people show up on time. 
Oh, you guys have Mexican time down there in Panama, too? That’s almost the exact same culture in Mexico. Granted, in American companies (which is where I spend most of my on-the-clock time), things are getting better, especially if an American is the meeting organizer. If it’s a Mexican organizing the meeting (or someone known to have “gone native”), then the timing is much more casual. It’s always important to know who’s calling the meeting!
I’ve never heard anyone else call the real time “hora inglesa” or anything else that would be equivalent (I’d like to know the Mexican term if there is one). Instead my general experience is to say/hear (for example) that we’ll meet at Restaurant X at 7:00 so that we’ll all be there at 8:00, wink wink. If you show up at seven, well, there’s always Negra Modelo to pass the time with until someone else shows up.
I’m an engineer, which by definition makes me a planner. Family vacations (the in-laws) always especially frustrate me, because despite my knowledge of this cultural peculiarity, I can’t ever get everyone to show up at a precise time. There’s no way to hurry up and relax, I guess.
Hell, since having married a Mexican, I find myself less punctual for affairs that involve her participation than I would otherwise ever allow myself to be. I often lie to her about times so that we get to the dentist on time (and she’s a dentist herself!), or parties, or whatnot. Of course, I’ve heard it said that all wives do that, and it’s not a function of her being Mexican.
Allow me to quote my favorite WTF from that thread:
People who have wasted 15 minutes of your lunch break are kindly giving you a chance to explore the self. How awesome of them!
And no doubt they are on their phones when they finally do arrive and don’t get off the phone for most of the meal.
AND why am I certain that if the person they are “dining” with (where their bodies are physically present at any rate) becomes upset at this behavior they are regarded as being uncool?
Couple of passing thoughts…
The term for attitudes toward time is chronemics, and here is the wikipedia article describing more than you ever wanted to know about it. Basically cultures fall either in synchronic (clock-driven) or polychronic (relationship-driven). Synchronic cultures do things in the prescribed sequence with close attention to time, while polychronic cultures juggle many things simultaneously and prioritize them based on the strength of the relationship.
I will never forget the time I went to a Brazilian pool party and showed up at 5PM as described on the invite. The host and I were alone for 3 hours. At 8PM everyone showed up en masse and acted as if it were totally normal. Totally baffling to me.
Also, on the CPT thing, yes it’s totally real, and my personal theory is that it’s a problem with access to reliable transportation. In every case where I have been on the receiving end of it, there was a tragic story about how the public transportation was delayed, did not serve the destination, or their ride flaked out on them. And I found it completely believable, having been screwed by some of those bus and train routes myself. It’s an unfortunate fact of life that many black folk lack the financial means to secure reliable transportation.
It’s rather amazing how failure to conform to the norms of some social groups is attacked so viciously by many people. When I lived in Hawaii, I became familiar with “island time” and it never bothered me. Back in the states, I never understood why some managers would get seriously bent out of shape if someone was a few minutes late, for jobs where it was irrelevant. They never got stressed out about unpaid overtime. It reminded me of early 20th century labor relations. Sometimes punctuality is really important, and sometimes it isn’t. Don’t it take as a personal insult or a subtle and devious attack on the social order.
I forget which is which, but in Puerto Rican and Mexican Spanish, the word ahorita (literally “little now”) means two very different things: in one, the word means in a very short while, on the order of five or ten minutes. In the other, it means “sooner or later.” One dialect of Spanish uses the “-ita” to mean that the amount of time is small (“a small time from now”), and the other uses “-ita” to mean that the importance is smaller (“Now-ish, but less demanding”).
This resulted in a somewhat hilarious situation on a business trip, where two co-workers who had learned Spanish in different cultures were discussing when to get dinner. One went up to his hotel room, took his tie off, and came down ready for dinner; the other went up, took a siesta, and was interrupted by the telephone 30 minutes later.
Their attitudes about punctuality were very much in line with their interpretations of the word, so in either Mexico or Puerto Rico, there is definitely a reduced emphasis on punctuality.
By the way, CPT is also GST (Gay Standard Time) which is just another word for “fashionably late,” although I’ve heard GST used to chastise guys who are the last to show up because they like to keep everyone else waiting so they can be the center of attention. I’ve never heard anyone who wasn’t in the group use the group’s term (CPT, GST, Kenya Time, etc).
Many years ago I was in the town of Flores in northern Guatemala, trying to catch a flight back to Guatemala City. Ahead of me in line at the airport were two tourists, German girls who wanted to know when the plane was going to depart so they could walk around and see the town instead of waiting at the airport.
All the agent would tell them was that the flight left “in the afternoon.” I thought the Germans were going to have apoplexy.
After many years in Latin America, I know by now that that’s the most accurate timetable you’re going to get.
That drives me nuts too. I have introduced a late fine whereby people pay according to how many minutes late they are and how many people had to wait for them. Then we use the fines to buy beer at the expense of the inconsiderate employees. It still doesn’t recover the $150+ per man hour we lose by waiting for stragglers, but it is a start.
That drives me nuts too. I have introduced a late fine whereby people pay according to how many minutes late they are and how many people had to wait for them. Then we use the fines to buy beer at the expense of the inconsiderate employees. It still doesn’t recover the $150+ per man hour we lose by waiting for stragglers, but it does get the message across.
Brazilians often referred to the difference between Brazilian time and American time when I lived there. If it was American time, you were expected to be on time. If it was Brazilian time, you were expected to be no less than an hour late for a social engagement – less late for a business engagement.
My second host family threw a New Year’s Eve party. The invitations said 9pm. The caterers showed up around 9:30 and the first guests a little after 10. That was all considered perfectly normal and my host mother was not in the slightest bit stressed out that her caterers hadn’t shown up a full half hour after the party was supposed to have started.
In my experience with Mexican Spanish, “ahorita” means “right now or very, very soon”.
I do.
If you tell me you’re coming to my home, or meeting me somewhere, at a particular time and you don’t show up reasonably close to that time I will feel deceived and/or that you do not value my time, and by extension you do not value me. I don’t demand on-the-second punctuality, but if you say 3 pm I will be very, very offended if you don’t show until 4 or later. At a minimum, I want a phone call saying you will be late, along with an apology for any possible inconvenience you may be causing me. If you say betwwn 3 and 5, that’s different (unless you show up at 7 in that case)
As for jobs - true, some jobs it’s not a big deal. However, if part of the expectations of your employer is that you be there at a certain time, and you agree to it, then yes, it’s important. Otherwise, if they can’t trust you to show up on time can they trust you with anything else?
Here in Panama, “ahorita” literally means “right now, immediately.”
In practice, however, it often means “eventually,” especially when said by a waiter or waitress. 
Oh, right. I forgot, there’s also Pagan Standard Time. Pissed me off somethin’ fierce when I was younger, but I’ve learned to roll with it now. Most of the time!
I agree with this. I’m in charge of the new grads in our office. During their first few months with us I ask them to work set hours to get them to understand that it requires a bit of self-discipline to turn up to things on time. There’s invariably one who complains about it…“there’s no real need for me to be here by a specific time as long as I get the work done. When it’s necessary I can turn up on time”. And it’s always that same one who, in fact, never manages to turn up on time for anything (internal meetings, training sessions, meetings with clients) when it is actually necessary.
There’s a skill to being punctual. Some people seem to be born with it. For others, it has to be learnt. Once you’ve learnt it, you can use it as necessary. But if you don’t have it, and refuse to learn it, you’ll never earn any respect or trust.