Are there *really* lightning rods on the Vatican??

I heard this, and I find it hard to believe that the Vatican would ever DREAM of being struck by lighting. It would seem that such a THOUGHT would be a sin. God would NEVER strike the Pope with lighting… or would he/she? So, can anyone say for sure whether this is a rumor, or whether there are REALLY lightning rods on the Vatican?

bruce

Truth is, Kalt, the Catholic Church has understood and accepted the basic principles of science for some time now. Catholics, and indeed 99.99% of Christians (and Jews amd Muslims for that matter) understand that there is lots of stuff that goes on in the natural world. That is not to say that God could not cause a lighting bolt to strike somewhere, or that who could prevent one from striking, but not every action in the natural world is a direct result of God’s intervention. So, even if the Vatican DID get struck by lightning, no one (save perhaps ARG220), not even the pope, would think to blame God for it.

BTW, stop trolling. It’s going to start to piss everyone off very quickly, and life on this message board will not be very fun for you.

Also, I am a non-Christian, but that does not mean I do not understand a thing or two about how Christianity works.


Jason R Remy

“And it could be safely said that at that moment, in the whole of India, no one, absolutely no one, was f^(king a goat.”
– John Irving A Son of the Circus (1994)

trolling?

Ok, I figured out what trolling is:
“Posting fake or insincere messages”

I don’t see where you got this from… I heard that the vatican had lighning rods, and to me, that seems rather … ironic. Maybe there was some sarcasm in the latter half of my question, but my question is real and sincere. I really want to know if anyone knows for SURE whether there are lightning rods on the vatican.

No offense meant to anyone - I think this is a great discussion board and I’d never want to vandalize it. Oh yeah, my other question is sincere too. I’m genuinely curious about this stuff.

bruce

I would say that the faith of the Pope and other residents of the Vatican City is sufficiently strong that they don’t feel the need to deny the existence of physical reality. In other words, it is possible to simultaneously believe that God exists and random events occur. Unfortunately, there are many people with lesser faith (however much they proclaim the contrary). These people apparently feel that if they admit that anything can happen without being directly attributed to God, they have denied God’s existence.

The question you asked was perjoritive and shows a general lack of respect for Catholicism specificly and religion in general. You implied (nay, nearly stated) that the Catholic church, due to its strong religious convictions, feels that it is not held to physical laws in the same manner as common citizens. It’s not ironic for the Vatican to be struck by lightning; merely natural. And it is not ironic for there to be lightning rods on the Vatican (and we have not determined if there are; but so what) it is practical. People who are religious can be intelligent, educated people just like the non-religious, not the quaint irrational boobs statements like:

make them out to be. If this is a matter that genuinely concerns you, do a little research yourself. If you really feel that this is an appropriate, value-neutral question that you have asked, you should grow up a few years before asking another one.


Jason R Remy

“And it could be safely said that at that moment, in the whole of India, no one, absolutely no one, was f^(king a goat.”
– John Irving A Son of the Circus (1994)

MAN!! jayron lighten up! i personaly saw no amount of troll in the original post.even if it was intended that way your reaction would simply give a troller exactly what he/she was after (attention). realy man you need to lighten up.

First of all, I think it is a great question. Jayron, it was not meant as a troll.

Second of all, it IS ironic if there are lightning rods on the vatican, or any other church/religious establishment for that matter. And yes, i don’t respect religion. If god is worth praying to, then he surely wouldn’t strike his number one place of worship with lightning.

And despite what you say, the church, especially the catholic church, does NOT condone science or rationality. Only faith. The idea that the vatican could ever be struck with lighting seems heretical, and i’m sure in ages past they would have burned anyone at the stake who even mentioned the notion of lightning striking the vatican.

Gee, i wonder if you are a catholic - if so, then i think it’s YOU who needs to grow up.

In the meantime, you’re flaming has done nothing to help me find the answer to the question, which is the ultimate purpose of this message board. I’ve done some research, and so far i cant find PROOF that there are realy lightning rods up there. But if there are, then i’d say that’s a good blow to theopaths everywhere.

bruce

Kalt, you are trolling. At the very least, you are posting in the wrong board. In which case, here’s a little tip for future posts.

An appropriate General Questions version of your original question would be more like: “Do the buildings in the Vatican have lightning rods?”

An appropriate Great Debates version of your original question would be: “Are the tenets of Catholicism ultimately at conflict with empicirical science?”

Go to the BBQ Pit if you feel the need to continue spewing forth. You’ll be a big hit. Slow-moving targets are very popular over there. As for this thread, I’m ignoring your mindless anti-Catholic ranting. Simply put, your post doesn’t belong here.

if i worded it as “do the building in the vatican have lightning rods” i’m sure the same offense would have been taken. sorry - i’ll end this thread…

I think Kalt’s question was legitimate. It really wasn’t much different from the suggested “Does the Vatican have lightning rods.” It was just dressed up a bit to make it more interesting.

I also don’t think you should use a word like “pejorative” unless you can spell it right. Oh, but I guess now I’m trolling.

  1. I was raised Catholic, but I currently describe myself as either “non-religious” or “not even athiest.” Still, I understand a great deal about Catholic theology. I am also well versed in many other world religions, and I have gained my wisdom by conversing and listening to practitioners and clerics of those religions. You, by evidence of your current position, have not.

  2. God does not cause everything in the natural world. NO modern monotheistic religion has ever claimed this. Before you go off on this, ask one catholic preist, baptist minister, or Rabbi about this, and you will get the same answer: God CAN use natural phenomena to accomplish His purposes, but not every lightning bolt comes from His hand.

  3. Not only does the Catholic church (and many other religions, for that matter) condone science and rationality, they are active participcants in it. Gregor Mendel was a monk, Nicolas Kopernik (Copernicus) was a priest, Sir Isaac Newton was a devout Christian. Lots of our current understanding of the scientific process and of the natural world came from Muslim scientists. Matters of faith and matters of reason are not incompatible. Again, no religion, least of all the Catholic Chuch, claims that God causes everything to happen. They claim that God can cause anything to happen that he wants to, but that is NOT the same thing.

  4. Heresy does not center around such banal matters as natural phenomena. It is not, nor has it ever been, heretical to claim that all earthly creations and institutions are bound to obey the laws of nature. Heresies come about because a person has a theological difference with the established church. BTW, the Reformation pretty much eliminated heresy in the Christian world as a recognizable crime, since there is no longer an established religion in most places.

  5. Historical religions are in no way indicative of the current state of religion. Merely because practitioners of a religion in the past used their religion to justify atrocities or irrational behavior does not mean that the modern church is atrocious or irrational. Again, before you go off claiming that it is heretical to trust your senses and being a rational thinker while also having a devout faith in God, ask a priest or a minister or something. I hope you will be presently surprised how rational and reasonable they are concerning matters of natural phenomena.


Jason R Remy

“And it could be safely said that at that moment, in the whole of India, no one, absolutely no one, was f^(king a goat.”
– John Irving A Son of the Circus (1994)

thank you. my question was in every way meant to be serious. Maybe my use of capital letters on certain words gave it an accidental ‘sarcastic flair’ - if so re-read my question and ignore the capital letters.

Oh, and Jayron - I do feel this is an appropriate, value-neutral (if there is such a thing) question. I don’t feel any growing up would have improved my inquiry. But your goat-fucking quote and unnecessary insults/flaming make me wonder about the level of your maturity. I asked a simple yes/no question that i was honestly interested in (and i tried to explain WHY i was interested in it) and you took offense. A “yes” or “no” would have sufficed.

So if I ask:

Are all people named Bruce raging idiots?

I am asking a “value neutral” question? Aren’t I inciting a certain kind of response by the very nature of the question? Is this really a question at all, or am I trying to make a statement about people named Bruce? After all, it is just a question that asks for a simple yes or no answer.


Jason R Remy

“And it could be safely said that at that moment, in the whole of India, no one, absolutely no one, was f^(king a goat.”
– John Irving A Son of the Circus (1994)

Oh, fercryinoutload! Somebody just tell us if the Vatican has lightning rods and if so, who made the decision to put them there!

Then you guys can use those facts to continue your squabble somewhere else.

Greg, I would say that there was a legitimite question buried under crap, too except the topic title implies that the poster already knew the answer was yes and was merely shocked by it. Thus giving said poster an excuse to rant in an inappropriate forum. Seems like our Kalt could care less about the lightning rods.

But anyway, to salvage some justification for this thread’s continued existence…

I can’t imagine there wouldn’t be lightning rods, and I’d guess that it would be hard to find a source that confirmed or denied it. We might as well ponder if the men’s rooms in the Vatican have toilet paper. Maybe Kalt should inform us where he heard his original information.

I heard from someone that it did have lightning rods, so i was merely asking you people, who usually are quite intelligent and level-headed. I didn’t mean to imply that i already knew the answer - if i did i surely woudn’t have wasted the space here to ask a question that i know the answer to.

I don’t think toilet paper has anything to do w/ the original ‘irony’ of the topic. Gutters, weatherstripping, and a paved driveway don’t either.

If you can’t see the irony in the vatican having (if it really does) lighning rods, then you need to be a little more open minded.

There is no such thing as a value-neutral question… except maybe a qualitative question (what is one plus one?).

Anyone who has ever worked with polling/questionaire design knows that wording a question is the hardest part of the design. For example take these two questions:

Should women have the freedom of choice when it comes to abortions?

and

Should murdering unborn babies be legal?

Both are yes no questions, but will recieve wildly different percentages of answers, simply because of the wording.

Are you calling me a raging idiot? is that the case?

bruce

OK, let’s see which of the following assertions you have made display your phenominal openmindedness.

Oh, OK… Thanks for showing me the light. I now understand that the path to openmindedness is by berating others for their religious beliefs and by making trite statements and misinformed assertions about religions that I have made no effort to understand.

Oh, and don’t give up on goatfucking that easily. When they go “baa” you can imagine that it is really moaning. And if you take them to the edge of a cliff, they push back harder.


Jason R Remy

“And it could be safely said that at that moment, in the whole of India, no one, absolutely no one, was f^(king a goat.”
– John Irving A Son of the Circus (1994)

You would be hard-pressed to find a person on the SDMB more openly hostile to theism and religion than me, and yet I would never make such a patently idiotic claim.

The Catholic Church is the one mainstream Christian denomination that especially condones science and rationality. They are, to the best of my knowledge, the only denomination whose spiritual leader has specifically, in a written document, recognized the truth of the Darwinian theory of evolution by natural selection. If that isn’t condoning science, I don’t know what is.

i’m glad you see it my way now.