Are Trump supporters capable of seeing the Trumpian double-standard?

[REssence]

With all due respect, I find the posing of a question like this, at this point in time, to be quite troubling, and more than a little frightening, and I believe that the mindset where many Americans not of the GOP persuasion still continue to see things from a perspective based on the way things were, say around twenty years ago, to be a huge contributing factor to the mess we’re in now.

It seems to me that if you can ask a question like that, it’s unlikely that you’ve had much experience dealing personally with some of ‘those’ people, and if and when you do, it shouldn’t take you too long to realise the extent of their ideological fervor, after getting an ear full of how quickly and completely they are are able to dismiss and demean any views opposed to their own.
I (unfortunately) know more than a few (including family), and while most of them could have previously been considered ‘moderate’ and reasonably pragmatic GOPers, they’ve now been reduced to a thoroughly ‘us and them’ mentality (or worse); I even know one (previously) intelligent and accomplished physician - a man of science - who stated, matter of factly and with a straight face, that the vast majority of climate scientists now believe climate change to be a hoax. This alone should be enough to open up eyes to the seductive and ultimately brainwashing effects of any powerful ideological movement such as the one we’re dealing with now, and it’s past becoming obvious how far the vast majority of GOPers (most especially the fanatics that make up a large - and quickly growing - portion of the GOP ‘base’), have moved beyond caring a whit about any standards of behavior, double or otherwise, and will justify or at least tolerate almost anything as simply being a means to an end.

Nothing lasts forever; the founding fathers had a clear enough idea of how vulnerable our system might be, and given everything that’s led to this, it’s not hard to see how vulnerable our system has become, to being overwhelmed by a movement so alike those occurring in early 20th century Germany or Italy.
So, I’m hoping and praying that enough of us, before November, get a bit more real, and dump some of the naivety; one might a) become a bit more aware of what led to all this; b) study some 20th century European history; c) look up fascism in the dictionary or encyclopaedia, and try to find any differences between what you read and what’s happening now- and also note how well those systems have worked, up until they time they became destructive… then ask yourself what you think this country’s prospects really are for the kind of cyclical changes or self-corrections our system has allowed us in the past.
Also, try finding any recent example of a movement like the one we’re witnessing that acquired so much power, who would stop at anything in order to hold on to it- and you might move away from wondering how GOPers can behave then way they do, and realise that the best - and maybe only - chance we have, at least for now, is to vote them out, rigged as the system may be. After that, if we’re lucky enough to get the chance, we might, in an effort to avoid repeating past mistakes, try listening to the legitimate beliefs that some of those people actually did hold, before they got sucked down into the deep end.

Thank you for your kind attention to this editorial/rant!

[drad_dog]

@REssence

With all due respect, I find the posing of a question like this, at this point in time, to be quite troubling, and more than a little frightening, and I believe that the mindset where many Americans not of the GOP persuasion still continue to see things from a perspective based on the way things were, say around twenty years ago, to be a huge contributing factor to the mess we’re in now.

It seems to me that if you can ask a question like that, it’s unlikely that you’ve had much experience dealing personally with some of ‘those’ people, and if and when you do, it shouldn’t take you too long to realise the extent of their ideological fervor, after getting an ear full of how quickly and completely they are are able to dismiss and demean any views opposed to their own.
I (unfortunately) know more than a few (including family), and while most of them could have previously been considered ‘moderate’ and reasonably pragmatic GOPers, they’ve now been reduced to a thoroughly ‘us and them’ mentality (or worse); I even know one (previously) intelligent and accomplished physician - a man of science - who stated, matter of factly and with a straight face, that the vast majority of climate scientists now believe climate change to be a hoax. This alone should be enough to open up eyes to the seductive and ultimately brainwashing effects of any powerful ideological movement such as the one we’re dealing with now, and it’s past becoming obvious how far the vast majority of GOPers (most especially the fanatics that make up a large - and quickly growing - portion of the GOP ‘base’), have moved beyond caring a whit about any standards of behavior, double or otherwise, and will justify or at least tolerate almost anything as simply being a means to an end.

Nothing lasts forever; the founding fathers had a clear enough idea of how vulnerable our system might be, and given everything that’s led to this, it’s not hard to see how vulnerable our system has become, to being overwhelmed by a movement so alike those occurring in early 20th century Germany or Italy.
So, I’m hoping and praying that enough of us, before November, get a bit more real, and dump some of the naivety; one might a) become a bit more aware of what led to all this; b) study some 20th century European history; c) look up fascism in the dictionary or encyclopaedia, and try to find any differences between what you read and what’s happening now- and also note how well those systems have worked, up until they time they became destructive… then ask yourself what you think this country’s prospects really are for the kind of cyclical changes or self-corrections our system has allowed us in the past.
Also, try finding any recent example of a movement like the one we’re witnessing that acquired so much power, who would stop at anything in order to hold on to it- and you might move away from wondering how GOPers can behave then way they do, and realise that the best - and maybe only - chance we have, at least for now, is to vote them out, rigged as the system may be. After that, if we’re lucky enough to get the chance, we might, in an effort to avoid repeating past mistakes, try listening to the legitimate beliefs that some of those people actually did hold, before they got sucked down into the deep end.

Thank you for your kind attention to this editorial/rant!

You can’t vote them out if they are rigging the game. Do you have any other plan?

[REssence]

Yeah- leave! Personally, I’ve no stomach for living in one-party state- I’ve experienced one (Poland early '80’s), and it’s really heartbreaking.
But maybe it’s not so thoroughly rigged here yet where an actual election victory could be disregarded(?) Anyway, we do have, at least, a ‘puncher’s chance.’

[PhillyGuy]

@drad_dog

Do you have any other plan?

The simplest way to activate someone’s identity is to threaten it, to tell them they don’t deserve what they have, to make them consider that it might be taken away. The experience of losing status—and being told your loss of status is part of society’s march to justice—is itself radicalizing.

There’s a quote I occasionally see ricochet around social media. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” There’s truth to this line, but it cuts both ways. To the extent that it’s true that a loss of privilege feels like oppression, that feeling needs to be taken seriously, both because it’s real, and because, left to fester, it can be weaponized by demagogues and reactionaries.

In her book Talking to Strangers, Harvard political theorist Danielle Allen writes that “the hard truth of democracy is that some citizens are always giving things up for others.” These sacrifices, she argues, are subjective, but they need to be treated as significant, and met with a spirit of “political friendship.” In a conversation I had with her for my podcast, Allen expanded on the point. We need “to give each other space to negotiate around experiences of loss,” she said.

from Why We’re Polarized by Ezra Klein

Are there vast numbers of Trump-ambivalent voters who might stay home if such advice were followed? No. But the election is going to be close.

[River_Hippie]

@Leaper

I’ve often speculated on the question asked in the OP. I can think of a few different reasons Trump supporters might not be moved by the scandals and gaffes and such:

1. They never hear about it from the media they consume.
2. They hear about it, but think it’s opposition lying/distorting
3. They hear about it, but don’t understand its complexities or why it’s important
4. They hear about it, but they like what he did
5. They hear about it, but just don’t care

I wonder how the possibilities play out proportionally among his voters.

It’s 5.

[FlikTheBlue]

@Aji_de_Gallina

What’s the point of these “Why do trumpers/conservatives do X?” if almost every answer is by an opponent saying “cuz dey dumb”? Is the self-congratulatory circle that entertaining? How do you fight ignorance if you’re so sure about the answer that you don’t need to hear it?

In my case, it’s because I come to a different conclusion than “cuz dey dumb.” The longer I’ve thought about it, I think the defining characteristic of today’s conservative movement in the US is not ignorance, but selfishness.

[drad_dog]

So we know it’s social media right?

The same thing we are doing right now.

When they do it, they get less tethered to any traditional meanings for their prefernces that we might pin down or analyze.

They are just winging democracy, and flinging it, and not being grown ups. I’m sorry if that’s pejorative but it’s true.