[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
What would you do if science thoroughly disproved that the Bible is literally true? Would you accept the findings, or discard science and embrace absolute blind faith?
[/QUOTE]
Science by it’s very nature is designed to change, it is man guided and subject to error and revision. How can you compare this to what God has revealed? How can you ask someone to take the word of something that can not be the truth as the truth?
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Science by it’s very nature is designed to change, it is man guided and subject to error and revision. How can you compare this to what God has revealed? How can you ask someone to take the word of something that can not be the truth as the truth?
[/QUOTE]
Then from now on, the honorable thing for you to do is to admit that you only support science when it backs up your particular world view. It also might be wise for you to stay out of science-related threads, since you seem to have no respect for the subject.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Science by it’s very nature is designed to change, it is man guided and subject to error and revision. How can you compare this to what God has revealed? How can you ask someone to take the word of something that can not be the truth as the truth?
[/QUOTE]
But wouldn’t it be neat if science, like the Bible, were inerrant? No hypothesis would ever be disproven, no statement falsified, no results contradictory (even if they really, really seem that way).
Empiricistic Little League: everyone gets a trophy just for showing up and being a good sport!
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
The unknown God is defined as the one true God, and that God is defined elsewhere in scriptures as providing everything we need.
[/quote]
Then you have no support for saying that the Greeks felt they needed the unknown god/God. They may have needed him, according to the Bible, but you have no evidence to say they felt any sense of loss without it anymore than any other of the gods they worshipped.
Does this extend to all people who’ve never heard of God/Jesus? That seems somewhat unfair.
[QUOTE=Polycarp]
Is this OK: “Atheists, such as Stalin and Der Trihs, believe in purging the millions whose opinions differ from theirs.”?
Which is not to say that you’re wrong for that small minority of people professing Christianity who are in it for the money.
[/QUOTE]
I never mentioned anything about making money. And being in it for the money isn’t as bad or dangerous as actually believing in this sort of nonsense.
As for the Stalin comparison, as has been pointed out over and over, atheism is not an ideology, unlike Christianity. Your comparison doesn’t work. Communism and Christianity are the same sort of belief system; Communism and atheism are not, especially given that atheism isn’t a belief system at all.
And like it or not, “taking advantage of the naïveté of her youth group” IS standard for people trying to pass on a religion. It pretty much has to be, given how silly the beliefs in question are.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
It would be interesting what would happen if science got advanced enough to find out that the Bible is literally true. What would happen to other religions, politics etc. if science started to converge on absolute Biblical truth.
[/QUOTE]
Since the Bible is a collection of mythology, full of contradictions of itself and reality, that’s never going to happen. No more than science will prove that Norse or Greek or Aztec or Sumerian mythology is true.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Science by it’s very nature is designed to change, it is man guided and subject to error and revision. How can you compare this to what God has revealed?
[/quote]
Quite easily. Science is far superior. Humans trying to discover the truth using science do far, far better than an imaginary God. “God” is just an egotistical, self indulgent fantasy, whose “revealed truths” are nothing more than the prejudices and desires of the people who dreamed him up.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
How can you ask someone to take the word of something that can not be the truth as the truth?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t. Which is why I always call religion a collection of lies and delusions.
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Then from now on, the honorable thing for you to do is to admit that you only support science when it backs up your particular world view. It also might be wise for you to stay out of science-related threads, since you seem to have no respect for the subject.
[/QUOTE]
It might be wise of you to stay out of threads related to faith in God using your logic.
But I disagree with your contention, It’s not that I only support science when it backs up my POV, I use it for what it’s worth, it’s a tool that one can use to get certain things done. Used correctly there is nothing wrong with it, but I also reconise it’s limitations.
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
But wouldn’t it be neat if science, like the Bible, were inerrant? No hypothesis would ever be disproven, no statement falsified, no results contradictory (even if they really, really seem that way).
[/QUOTE]
Yes very neet, man could not produce that, but lets imagine that some all knowing being gave man a science book and we had the formula F=ma, do you know how silly it would look to the cavemen where they knew that how fast things moved (velocity not acceleration) was directly related to how hard you pushed it. For cavemen purposes they could use the formula Velocity = mass of rock x how many men pushing it and that would work very well for them though it is not correct.
[QUOTE=RT]
Then you have no support for saying that the Greeks felt they needed the unknown god/God. They may have needed him, according to the Bible, but you have no evidence to say they felt any sense of loss without it anymore than any other of the gods they worshipped.
[/QUOTE]
Well using the Bible they did need God - as we all need God, our strength and our breath comes from God, though they didn’t know Him.
But no I don’t think they felt a loss as such, but more like some of them were looking for something besides Zeus and the gang, and somehow figured out that there was something not revealed, some ‘God’ that they knew must exist.
I’m sure many Greeks honored this unknown God just to hedge their bets, and all didn’t understand that this was the one true God, the one who stands in Judgment of Zeus.
[QUOTE=RT]
Does this extend to all people who’ve never heard of God/Jesus? That seems somewhat unfair.
[/QUOTE]
There are some things about God that seem at this time unfair to me, I can’t change the rules just because I can’t understand them or don’t like them. I can give you some explanation from my understanding at this time, it’s something that I haven’t really been lead to investigate lately and don’t think it will be anything that you haven’t heard already. I’m pretty sure that things were not good for those who interacted with the gods of Mt Olympus.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Science by it’s very nature is designed to change, it is man guided and subject to error and revision. How can you compare this to what God has revealed? How can you ask someone to take the word of something that can not be the truth as the truth?
[/QUOTE]
As I understand you,you are implying that you are the only person that knows the truth, or what is not. As I stated earlier you are free to believe as you wish but There are many Christians who do not share your interpetations nor can you say that the Bible is without a doubt the Word of God unless the humans who wrote it and you believe in are God.
Monavis
[QUOTE=monavis]
As I understand you,you are implying that you are the only person that knows the truth, or what is not. As I stated earlier you are free to believe as you wish but There are many Christians who do not share your interpetations nor can you say that the Bible is without a doubt the Word of God unless the humans who wrote it and you believe in are God.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry you think that way, there are many who God has revealed the truth to, but the parts He wants to reveal, He is simply too big for us to fully understand, so parts are given to each believer for the advancement of His kingdom and to the glory of God. As for the Word of God, God is more then up to the task of compensating for us humans and our recording methods to preserve His Word as He want us to know it.
[QUOTE=DMC]
Based on your other posts, and assuming he’s referring to the “Archaeological Study Bible”, you might want to rethink hunting that down, as it’s just more of the same. In the preface to the book it says “a careful study of the world of the Bible enhances our confidence in historical accuracy and in its distinctiveness as the Word of God.” If you say so.
Here is a critique that was done of the book (actually, just a small sample of the book’s contents) to give you an idea that it’s more “The Bible is true because this happened” than an archaeological book.
[/QUOTE]
DMC your cite is very biased this short except to me tells it all in a very symbolic form:
Bold mine
Complaining that a study bible used the term B.C. and doesn’t use the secular term BCE shows the underlying problem. The author does not agree with the historical accuracy of the Word of God and would rather go with man’s interpretation and shows their blindness to expect that their term be used in the very place where it should not above all.
The rest of the cite shows a very world centered view of that Bible.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Yes very neet, man could not produce that, but lets imagine that some all knowing being gave man a science book and we had the formula F=ma, do you know how silly it would look to the cavemen where they knew that how fast things moved (velocity not acceleration) was directly related to how hard you pushed it. For cavemen purposes they could use the formula Velocity = mass of rock x how many men pushing it and that would work very well for them though it is not correct.
[/QUOTE]
“Hey, you know how it says in The Book that E=mc³?”
“Yeah, why?”
“It’s strange, but something doesn’t seem to fit. I keep doing experiments and the results don’t match. But E=mc² seems to work.”
“No, you’re wrong. It’s E=mc³. It says so right in the book.”
“Yeah, but I’ve repeated it over and over and it’s always the same result.”
“Doesn’t matter. Book says E=mc³. It’s E=mc³. That settles it.”
“Okay, but why doesn’t that formula ever work?”
“You’re doing it wrong.”
“I’m pretty sure I’m not.”
“Okay, then it’s the Devil trying to mislead you.”
“But I’ve repeated the experiment dozens of times.”
“The Devil is a workaholic.”
“Okay, but there’s also this thing about how pi is supposed to equal five?”
“Yeah, so?”
“That seems way off. I actually get…”
“Nope. Devil.”
“Okay, but how about…”
“Devil.”
<Sigh> “Okay, fine. But why would the Supreme Being allow the Devil to mislead us? What’s the point of creating a Devil in the first place? And why would He go out of His way to make the truth look so much like a lie, and why would He grant us intelligence and reason and then ask us not to use them? Is He that much of a control freak? Is He… was that thunder?”
“Way to go, Einstein.”
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Well using the Bible they did need God - as we all need God, our strength and our breath comes from God, though they didn’t know Him.
[/quote]
Needing and feeling that need are two different things.
But since you can’t say they had that feeling, we may say exactly the same in reverse; some people worshipped an unknown god (that was actually God) but felt that he didn’t meet all their needs and so also worshipped Zeus et al. You seem to be assuming that the worshippers of the unknown god were theists and not polytheists.
You mean the demon or otherwise evil force who masquerades as Zeus, right? 
But I thought as a believer you were imbued with the Holy Spirit, and thus able to recognise God and his plan. Not understanding any part of this plan would suggest you are not gifted with that spirit, and in turn that you’re not a true believer (or that you’ve been gifted with the Spirit temporarily).
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Sorry you think that way, there are many who God has revealed the truth to, but the parts He wants to reveal, He is simply too big for us to fully understand, so parts are given to each believer for the advancement of His kingdom and to the glory of God. As for the Word of God, God is more then up to the task of compensating for us humans and our recording methods to preserve His Word as He want us to know it.
[/QUOTE]
You are not taking the word of God, but of some humans, and since all that is written or believed and taught have nothing to do with God, but what some believe. There is a hugh difference between belief and knowledge.
Humans can say they were inspired by God, I could say that God inspired me to know that He doesn’t have a religion and none are of His doing. Some people may believe me and some may not.
Who’s truth are you defending?
Monavis
[QUOTE=RT]
But since you can’t say they had that feeling, we may say exactly the same in reverse; some people worshipped an unknown god (that was actually God) but felt that he didn’t meet all their needs and so also worshipped Zeus et al. You seem to be assuming that the worshippers of the unknown god were theists and not polytheists.
[/QUOTE]
I think most of the were probably happy with their gang of gods (yes fallen angels/demons), but from scriptures it seems like some of them detected, basically something they couldn’t see, but must be there, sort of like the method of finding submarines by finding a spot of water too quite. I don’t know if that alone qualified them as theists or just thought of God as another ‘god’. We do have scriptures that some of the Greeks knew we are this God’s offspring, so they have figured out part of the puzzle
Only the parts that He reveals to me for His purpose. God decides what we need to know to serve Him in the aspect He wants us too. This does not mean He lets us know everything. God will lead us to other believers who have gifts we do not, we are not meant to be the total body of Christ as a individual but only a part.
RT, here is another example of a people worshiping God, but not knowing Him:
[QUOTE=John 4 (NIV)]
22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
RT, here is another example of a people worshiping God, but not knowing Him:
[/QUOTE]
There are many who believe they are worshiping in spirit and truth,which you would not agree. It is impossible to know God,just know what someone has said about Him. It is more like worshiping the word of what some one else has declared is God’s word. Because you may agree with them doesn’t make you or them the authortity on God’s word. And it doesn’t mean someone is demon possessed because they may disagree with you .
Monavis
monavis I’m not ignoring you, I just disagree with you and know there is no way, outside of God, to prove our point one way or another. You can keep banging your head against the wall if you like. From my POV God has proved His word to me, nothing you can say is going to stand against the Word of God. God, not man, will authorize who He want to be the authority as to His Word.
You are really selling the creator of the universe, who knew your name before He created the earth, and knew exactly where you would be, very short saying that He couldn’t get His word to us in a way that He wants.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Only the parts that He reveals to me for His purpose. God decides what we need to know to serve Him in the aspect He wants us too. This does not mean He lets us know everything. God will lead us to other believers who have gifts we do not, we are not meant to be the total body of Christ as a individual but only a part.
[/QUOTE]
How conveeeeeeenient. You mean you really believe that some force in the sky consciously decides what you can or cannot know? And what would the purpose of all this secrecy be? So you can look stupid and foolish? Is that what your idol gets out of it? What would be the negative effect of you knowing exactly the same stuff your object of worship knows?
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
monavis I’m not ignoring you, I just disagree with you and know there is no way, outside of God, to prove our point one way or another. You can keep banging your head against the wall if you like. From my POV God has proved His word to me, nothing you can say is going to stand against the Word of God. God, not man, will authorize who He want to be the authority as to His Word.
You are really selling the creator of the universe, who knew your name before He created the earth, and knew exactly where you would be, very short saying that He couldn’t get His word to us in a way that He wants.
[/QUOTE]
It is your belief, and your beliefs are very different from many other Christians, but to be honest, one can only say,“I believe it was God”. Remember Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
I do not care to change your mind as this idea seems to work for you, but to me truth is more important than supposition.
Monavis
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
I think most of the were probably happy with their gang of gods (yes fallen angels/demons), but from scriptures it seems like some of them detected, basically something they couldn’t see, but must be there, sort of like the method of finding submarines by finding a spot of water too quite. I don’t know if that alone qualified them as theists or just thought of God as another ‘god’. We do have scriptures that some of the Greeks knew we are this God’s offspring, so they have figured out part of the puzzle
[/quote]
Given the typical Ancient Greek view on gods, what they mean by “offspring” may be considerably more literal than I imagine you take it to be. But fair enough.
How then do you know that you know what you know? I’m not sure how to put this and make it coherent. Uhm. If you believe that God has allowed you to know some things about him, but that some are (purposely) kept from you, how do you know that what you think is knowledge given by God is actually knowledge given by God and not you mistaking your own ideas for his (which he has actually kept from you)?
[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
How conveeeeeeenient. You mean you really believe that some force in the sky consciously decides what you can or cannot know? And what would the purpose of all this secrecy be? So you can look stupid and foolish? Is that what your idol gets out of it? What would be the negative effect of you knowing exactly the same stuff your object of worship knows?
[/QUOTE]
Not answering from the Christian view, but the spiritual view.
I remember years ago when I first talked to spirit I was told certain things were true, but later was told certain things that seemed to conflict with the previous teachings. When I asked, spirit said we tell you those things you can understand and as you grow spiritually we give you more knowledge to work with. I accepted this explanation and began to work at those things I knew were beneficial like learning to love.