This comment was on WSJ.com “It is many many years since the joy of working in bars and restaurants passed me by but I always remember being told that if someone was having a heart attack to get them outside on the pavement.To give them air you may think?No if the customer died on the premises the kitchens by law would have to be closed for an investigation thus…I am sure things have changed!?”
Is this true, or just another myth? Would the kitchen really be closed down, and has something like removing the heart attack victim outside ever happened and been reported?
Never heard of that, but I doubt it. They’d almost certainly be sued if they tried to evade responsibility by forcing a dying patron out onto the street during some medical emergency.
Reminded me, though… I once read that after the Norman Conquest murdered corpses would sometimes be spirited into the next county (shire?) to avert suspicion and mislead the crown officer (coroner).
I too doubt it. The liability of moving a person would be too great. What if it could be shown that you had made the situation worse, or had injured the person during the move?
In my experience with emergency treatment is that most first responders do not have the authority to declare someone dead on the scene. They have to wait until an MD pronounces them. My uncle who was on a rescue squad tells a story about having to transport a victim and his head separately, yet the patient was not pronounced dead until reaching the hospital. It’s a very old story, and changing medical practices may have altered this. He’s been retired for some years.
In actual practice a heart attack victim would be simply transported, and no one would know where they were when they died.
In the “Ask an EMT” thread that was running for awhile, someone said that EMTs now have authority to declare someone dead in the event of decapitation. So I guess that’s progress, of a sort…
If there’s an ‘obvious fatal injury’ such as decapitation, we will tell Dispatch that we have a Priority 4 victim. The police handle it from there. Priority 4 does not mean dead, it means, ‘not in need of medical attention.’ Really.
M.D.s are not required for all declarations. As a hospice nurse, Deb has the authority to declare a person dead. I suspect that that is limited to her own patients, previously confirmed by an M.D. to be in a terminal situation, rather than the general public.
As to the OP: It sounds like a story invented to depict restaurant owners in a bad light.
This story is from 1888. (.pdf) This story is from 1901. (.pdf
Neither mentions closing the restaurant. (I suppose it might have been true in a city other than New York, but it does not seem probable to me.)
OK, so you move heart attack victims out, but guys you shoot in your yard in? What a drag.
But I came here to ask: Am I the only one who, after reading Boyo Jim’s time travelling cannibal thread, read the title as “…to avoid ingestion?”
Hey, that guy’s dead! Throw him on the steam table!!
My husband’s father had a heart attack in a restaurant. Husband was on his way to meet his dad for lunch. He arrived at the restaurant as the ambulance was pulling up. They did CPR, the paramedics did the paddle thingies, all right there on the floor by the table in the restaurant. My husband watched him bounce up and down off the floor from the shocks. He died on the way to the hospital. No one was told to move him or anything - the restaurant owner tried CPR while waiting for the paramedics.
About 30 years ago I heard a local news story about a guy who was having a heart attack in front of a Jack In The Box. One of the teenage workers ran to the phone to call the paramedics. The manager told her not to because “we’re already in enough trouble.” She ignored him and called anyway. He fired her. The guy died. Corporate found out about it and fired his ass and rehired her.
I worked at two restaurants over two years as a server and I was never given this particular piece of instruction. Really didn’t get any instruction at all regarding what to do in the event of a dying person, to be honest.
In Boston, there is an old law on the books, that if a bar patron dies (under suspicion), the place has to close while the police investigation is done. This lead (in one case) to a bartender dragging the corpse outside.
And at the same time, it seems to me that any death that is “under suspicion” is going to result in closure of the establishment (crime scene tape, etc.) until the police investigation is concluded.
What if they are just plain dead when you get there, not of something like a decapitation? My boss had a heart attack here at work. Coworkers immediately performed CPR until paramedics got here, and they worked on him some more, but he was dead and was never taken to a hospital at all. They did call the police (or was it the coroner?) to come confirm it though, but it took a few hours and his body just remained here that whole time. So they must have decided he was dead and not in need of transport at some point.
I worked fast food at one time - instructions were to provide care and first aid, call an ambulance, and not to move unnecessarily.
My brother was working as a cook in a restaurant when an elderly gentleman had a coronary - he came from the back and administered CPR until the ambulance came. Turns out there was nothing that could have been done for the guy - he was dead long before he got to the hospital. The restaurant was never closed - patrons were given deep discounts because of the unpleasant situation that night. It was a neighborhood place long established (but since closed at that location) so people pretty much took it in stride.
Hey, any way to find that thread? I just tried to do a search for it (which resulted in my waiting 300 seconds three times…boo) and couldn’t find it. I’d be very interested to read it as I am in an EMT class right now. Thanks!
