It’s more like 39% of the country thinks he’s doing a fine job. That 39% probably believes the world is flat too. In fact, the country is so happy with trump that Republicans are resigning and running from a fearing blue wave this fall.
I really hope we can turn you around some here HD, before your boy fucks the pooch so bad that even you see it.
I provided you a link to the RCP average in my post. If you can’t even follow that, I doubt you’ll be doing much of turning anyone around.
We are on the road to collectively being fucked. Some people used maps to see it way ahead of time, and wanted to take a different route altogether, they weren’t chicken littles.
There are times when you can get away with doing dangerous things. I used to drive way too fast. There is a decent chance that my driving may have been the death of myself or of others. The fact that I managed to not kill myself or anyone else is not proof that driving way too fast isn’t’ dangerous.
We are in a precarious position, as far as the economy goes, as far as international relations go, as far as civil rights go, and it requires leadership of people who are not only able to get people to follow, but who also know where we are going to get through things.
Yes, at this time, the most obvious characteristics of our economy and society havn’t been destroyed or come unravelled. But that doesn’t mean that there are not those currently picking at those threads and pulling them out. You have even admitted seeing changes, you just don’t think that they are big enough to merit concern. Well, my point is is that changes take time, lots of time with this much inertia, so by the time you are seeing a change, there’s quite a bit of inertia behind that change, and if you don’t like where it is going, then it will require quite a bit of work to stop and redirect it. We are at the point now where we see where things are heading, if we pay attention to the details, and we have the ability to turn them, now, but soon, we will not. By the time it is obvious, it will be too late to do anything about it, we’ll just end up in the ditch.
It does require more than just a bare glance at the surface to see that things are not the same, and that we are on a different path than before, especially when you are as removed from the consequences of the administrative actions as you are. Now, some may like this path. There are conservatives and trump supporters that own this and embrace the path that they know they are on. They know that the path is not best for everyone, they know it’s not even best for the country, but they think that it is the best path for them. I disagree entirely with them, but at least they know what it is they are doing, and are honest about not caring about the harm they know it will cause others.
From what I’ve seen and read, it seems to me that many of them do think that it’s best for the country. It’s pretty clear to me that many of them believe that the changes in U.S. society over the past 50 years or so have corrupted and perverted what America was, and they truly believe that the U.S. is doomed / damned unless things are returned to the way that they were.
For this reason, I’m not sure that I can picture what, if anything, could be a tipping point for Trump among those supporters. They seem to absolutely believe that either (a) all of the accusations and investigations are Fake News, designed by those who hate America and want to see him fail, and / or (b) even if Trump is flawed, it doesn’t matter, because he’s promised to do the things that they believe need to be done to restore America.
We’re fucked (so far) not because he has fucked things up so far that we can’t fix it. We’re fucked because roughly 1/3 of the American voting public was (and still is) willing to put an incompetent buffoon in the Oval Office. As I’ve said before, we could have four years of unprecedented peace and prosperity under Trump, and his election would still be rightly viewed as one of the worst things that ever happened to our country. If this many Americans are wiling to elect someone like Trump, Kim Kardashian, Howard Stern, or Carrot Top to the presidency, I’d say we’re fucked. Voters have to care, at least a little, about the consequences of their actions. A sufficient number no longer do. And very few Republicans are willing to state the obvious; to wit, this guy is bonkers.
Whether you think I look silly is of less than no importance to me; given your outlook on things, I’d find myself alarmed if you suddenly stopped dismissing my perspective. So, consider what you said noted.
Where are you getting the number “1/3” from?
Wishful thinking I guess. Or I’m just in denial that it’s larger than that.
You seem to not have a firm grasp of the facts. If you don’t really know what’s going on, I’d politely encourage you to avoid using specific numbers that have actual meaning. Maybe next time say something like “a significant portion of the American voting public” or “many Americans”.
Here’s a link to a story about that allegedly happening in Charlotte. It’s actually about arresting the students, not the parents, which I assume you would think is at least as bad. I don’t know if that’s where you live in NC, but you might note that this story is dated March 2016. That was before the last presidential election.
Further, can you clarify specifically what it is that reminds you of Weimar Germany? That is, what is the US government doing that was happening in Weimar Germany?
I can draw some parallels with Weimar Germany - the rise of a radical left, followed by the rise of a reactionary right as a counter, both fueled by the hard times imposed in the aftermath of a crisis (WWI/2008 financial collapse) and both with populist messages aimed at opposing groups. Then there was a brief period where the economy came back, and suddenly people were not listening to the extremist messages any more and were too busy enjoying a resurgent economy. Then came the depression, the calling in of loans and reparations payments, and radicalism and reactionary politics came back with a vengeance.
Along with it came identity politics, on both the right and left. People sought out other groups to blame for their woes, and craven politicians exploited that to gain political support.
I see echoes of that kind of behaviour in America, on both the right and the left. Identity politics is toxic, whether it’s white nationalism or black identity movements.
The funny thing is, we used to understand that pitting groups against each other was toxic, and the enlightenment was all about a shift from tribalism to treating people as individuals. But another comparison with Weimar Germany is that we seem to be abandoning the principles behind the enlightenment at a rapid rate - on both the right and the left.
What scares me most is what happens if another major crises erupts. Given the tone of the current culture, I could see things getting much worse.
I’m sorry I said it was only “roughly 1/3” of American voters who are willingly destroying our country. Next time I"ll say “many Americans” or “a significant portion of the American voting public.” Whatever the number is, it is too large. Eighteen months ago I would have guessed it to be around 10 or 15%.
This is where I’m at least somewhat optimistic.
I’m convinced that a lot of the right wing fanboys have had the luxury of maintaining their little world of illusions. It’s funny how everyone who’s unemployed is a bum – until they’re the ones unemployed themselves. Sure, some idiots will still project, but personal experience actually does change some people. It changed a lot of people in the 1930s and 40s, actually - changed them for an entire generation.
So I’m at least mildly optimistic that when people finally have their noses rubbed in it, at least some people will remember to stop shitting on their own carpet. But not until then, unfortunately.
I’ll say this: Trump is going to end the investigations into him and his business dealings. McConnell basically gave him the final green light to do it. Grassley might push the bill out of committee but only because he already knows that McConnell will kill it on the floor.
People who think that this is going to set the impeachment process into motion are not looking at the political reality. “Will Trump be impeached if (when) he fires Mueller?” isn’t the question to ask. Rather, the question is, what would stop Trump from quashing the other criminal and civil investigations? What will stop Trump from pardoning Cohen? Hell what will stop him from firing the FBI agents investigating him and prosecutors getting ready to try Cohen, Manafort, Flynn, and anyone else?
If Trump fires Mueller with the tacit support of the Republican congress…he can do anything he damn well wants.
What are you talking about? How are they going to “finally have their noses rubbed in it”? Are you anticipating a sudden surge in unemployment? Or are you imagining something else?
Earlier you said “Trump voters won’t turn on him until that condition is met, when they realize that he’s royally destroying the country.” What does “royally destroying the country” mean in your world?
Most recent polling from Quinnipiac.
Yes, Republican voters are beginning to agree more that Mueller is being unfair but they are still uncomfortable with the idea of firing him: 54% agree he is unfair to Trump but still 55% say no to firing him and only 22% agree with firing him.
And Independents (many of who traditionally “lean” R)? Half say Mueller is fair, only 32% say unfair, and 69% say no to firing him.
The House and recently it looks like even the Senate are already at risk of flipping in November. Do something that over half of Republicans are disagreeing with and over two thirds of Independents disagree with … let alone something that would excite Democrats and their leaners even more?
From my partisan perspective firing Mueller, pardoning Cohen, and having GOP Senators and Representatives say “fine” would be the gift that assures the wave.
And stopping the investigation into Cohen (and what it may uncover) is not as easy as a simple pardon.
A GOP Congress might allow for the clear and obvious obstruction that firing Mueller and pardoning Cohen would represent. But they would pay a price for that and that price would include assuring a Congress that was more likely to see such obstruction in Nixonian terms, and still not accomplish the desired obstruction.
A 1931-style economic depression, though I’m not sure it has to be quite that bad.
Even if the House and Senate actually do flip, it still may not matter. The Senate may not flip enough to actually follow through on a conviction. I suppose the assumption is that the Republican Senators will see the error of their ways and have a come to Reagan moment. That’s possible, but the Republicans would have to abandon their mega donors and become a completely different party between now and 2020, and I don’t think that’s going to happen.
Fine, how happy do you think “mega donors” are with Trump right now? Or do you assume that the congressional enabling thus far means that they have marching orders from said donors to leave Trump alone?
The factor you seem to be discounting is what Mueller has actually got, and the effect it will have (if any) on public perception. He hasn’t yet taken a single real shot.
E.g., I heard recently that there may be a tape of Trump violently beating a woman in an elevator. I don’t know if it’s true. At this point, there’s no reason to believe it is, but there was a time when few believed there could be a pee tape, either. If such a tape did exist and made its way into the public domain, might that change some minds?
Suppose Mueller has solid evidence of staggering, deep cooperation with Russians. Say, an irrefutable document trail of Trump’s organization directly paying Russian trolls. To this let’s add unimpeachable evidence of extensive money laundering, fraud, bribery, sexual deviation of all sorts of which Russians have evidence, and such evidence could be used to manipulate/blackmail Trump. Might that change some minds?
I just don’t think you have the full picture of how the electorate is going to react until you have the total evidence of Mueller’s probe. One of the main reasons Republicans have been able to manipulate the narrative is because Mueller has remained quiet as he does his work.
When he picks his moment, he will get it out there, one way or another. Even some Republicans may recoil.
LHoD was talking about the some specific actions by ICE. In case I wasn’t clear, I was asking what it is about those particular actions that qualifies as: “This does not feel like anything I’ve ever experienced in my life. For the first time in my life, I feel like Weimar Germany.”