Are we being duped again?

The truth is, there were plenty of atrocity stories circulating before the invasion. But guess what? Most of them turned out to be true. Yes, this story and several others turned out not to be true. So what? During the Gulf War I followed the news religiously, and I never heard the incubator story until months and months afterwords.

This reminds me of the old story about the Jesuits. It was said that if a Jesuit was accusing of murdering 5 protestants and a dog, they would invariably be able to produce the dog alive.

The fact is that the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait was brutal, people were robbed, raped and murdered at will. The whole country was looted.

So what exactly is the point of the OP? Are we being manipulated? Sure, I guess. Various interests put out information, some true, some false. And we either believe the information or don’t believe it. For instance, Saddam Hussein is trying to manipulate the media…see the latest article in the New Republic at:
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20021028&s=foer102802
Is this surprising? Is this shocking? Are you shocked when anti-war activists make extravagant claims about American casualties that turn out to be incorrect? No.

See, the OP rests on the premise that most people are too stupid to understand anything. They are only fit to be led around like sheep. Anyone who supports the war, or whatever, must have been tricked…because anyone with a lick of sense would believe exactly what Phil believes. It’s the Jewish media controlling everything, right Phil?

I’d just like to take a minute and respond to some points raised by Sua Sponte earlier, regarding the Ma’dan.

As you have correctly noted, Article 2© of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide does imply that the Iraqi government can be considered to be pursuing genocidal policies in relation to the Ma’dan. In addition, its use of chemical weapons on Kurdish villagers is both genocidal and a war crime.

However, regarding the specifics of the convention: while condemning genocidal acts, and providing a legal framework in which these acts can be punished, the Convention does not (as far as I can tell) sanction or promote military intervention as a proper response to genocidal policies on the part of States. In other words, signatory States are not compelled to act militarily against others States on the basis of acts of genocide. Thus, technically speaking, the Netherlands cannot be accused of violating international law in this instance. More significantly, this Convention grants to no State the right to use force or threat of force in its relations with other states: that right is reserved by the UN Charter to the UN Security Council alone.

The genocidal atrocities committed by Saddam Hussein are a very good reason for international military intervention in Iraq, but only under the auspices of the UN. This Convention, adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948, is an expression of the general will of the UN. By honoring it, we aren’t ignoring the UN; we’re abiding by its mandates.

Need I mention that the US government has often ignored the Convention when it suited its purposes? Thus, with regard to Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge, the US government officially recognized Pol Pot as the legitimate leader of the country, despite numerous attempts on the part of the UN to ban his regime’s participation in the General Assembly. The US gov’t vehemently opposed intervention in the internal affairs of the Cambodia during Pot’s genocidal massacre, and was among the first to denounce the Vietnamese government when, after numerous border skirmishes, it finally invaded Cambodia (in 1978, I believe).

At the same time, while US arms manufacturers were supplying weapons and ammo to the Indonesian army, which had invaded East Timor and was in the process of attempting to totally obliterate the native population, the US was instrumental in blocking UN action against Indonesia. Then US representative to the UN Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote in his autobiography of this period (1975 - 1976):

Naturally, when later reconstructing the beneficent history of the US as unimpeachable defender of the downtrodden, such uncomfortable tidbits of information are ignominiously consigned to the memory hole.

Your mention of the Iraqi regime’s crimes against the Kurdish minority are especially ironic in this situation, given that while these events were occurring, they were supported and condoned by the US government – which tried to foist the blame for the gas attacks on Iran, instead. Indeed, the helicopters used to carry out the attacks were Apache’s purchased from the US on the cheap, under an arms agreement that was condoned by the US government.

I consider myself fairly well read on the subject of US-Iraqi relations, and follow the news closely. I must admit, however, that your link to the Ma’dan is the first I’ve heard of them. Clearly, the US is not concerned with their fate; Bush has not mentioned them as a justification for military action a single time, to my knowledge. So I guess the shocking, unfortunate truth is that both the US and the Netherlands stand accused here. How can the US fail to live up to its commitments, and intervene on behalf of the unfortunate “Marsh Arabs?” How do you think such a justification for military action against Iraq would go down in middle America, pray tell?

If you read the link in the OP, you will find that the story was created two months later, it was a large press conference, it was reported widely. Maybe you were following some other news at the time?

Would you mind indicating which stories where true and providing a cite?

Stupidity isn’t the issue, because propaganda is a very powerful tool and often times skillfully offered up. The OP asks the question are we being duped NOW, because we have been in the past about this particular situation. Others have already provided cites, for allegations that have been made this time around that are false.

What’s the Jewish media have to do with this? Is this some veiled attempt to call me an anti-Semite?

Well, shit.

Wrong thread. Sorry.

To crosspost, or not to crosspost, that is the question…

Ah, fuck it.

Cowabunga!