Typically we countenance all manner of idea as open for debate as long as it is within the bounds of the forum rules. This is right there are on the border of jerkish racism as it contains not even a veneer of evidence or support. If you want to rant, the Pit would be a better place.
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I was talking about starting pay for Metro workers as well, I was comparing like with like. A certain number of bus drivers make over 100k around here. A larger number of Transit police make over 100k per year. Elevator mechanics make over $80k. All of these positions require far less training in terms of time and also in terms of opportunity cost. The salary scale for this region is typical of salaries for the transit systems for any major metropolitan area. STEM degrees are far more expensive, and require more opportunity cost; most of these degrees require at least 4 or 5 years of school.
Has anyone been to a college job fair recently? What types of jobs are they looking for? As part of my job I’ve gone on recruiting trips and it seems that STEM companies pretty plentiful as well as business/accounting/consulting. But that’s my anecdotal perspective from just attending the job fair. So from that perspective I would say that those jobs are still valuable since there are literally lots of companies wanting to hire those graduates. I’m not sure that a graduate with a degree in most liberal arts would have quite the same selection at the job fair.
Are they looking for persons fresh out of school or who already have experience?
Do STEM grads know that they there is an alt-cert program? Many might not even consider teaching since it requires an extra education step, and are unaware of how you handle this.
My comment was around that if you paid $100K (I hear you laughing) you’d have no shortage of candidates. Most of the complaints about lack of STEM grads come from execs who don’t pay enough and want very specific skill sets - which is kind of like what you are doing. They are doing it out of greed, you are doing it from lack of funding and support.
I have many teacher friends, and they do it out of love. And they work harder than I ever did. Teaching fulfills a different need in the teacher than engineering does in an engineer. I’m helping a friend with 2nd grade science now, and teaching it gives a very different kind of satisfaction.
Also, lots of engineers hate to talk in public, or are no good at it. That’s what you do every day. So, while there may be no shortage of STEM workers, there is a real shortage of STEM workers who can teach, and who would want to teach.
How do you look for new teachers?
I did very specialized hiring, and seldom had a problem filling my openings. Now we paid competitively, but my old company was not a hot one, and lots of people in the field hate us. (For good reasons.) I networked like hell.
Are there companies in your area with the kind of people you are looking for? You might check on layoffs.com every so often to find if there are any hints of lay offs - if so you might be able to talk to placement specialists so they know you are looking for people. It is common in Silicon Valley for companies who are hiring to swoop down on those laid off by another company. You can try it also.
I’ve never seen a lot of outreach from my local schools to people who might be interested. I know someone who took a CS teaching job in the local high school after getting fired from multiple companies - but his wife was a teacher, and so was better connected.
There are candidates out there, but they won’t fall into your lap and you have to do a really good sales job.
The ones I went to were held at colleges for new graduates. So this would typically be just a BS with little or no experience. I was working with the group looking to hire programmers and designers for enterprise software systems.
The company I worked for had different hiring buckets for new college grads and experienced people - and hiring an NCG was much easier. We had a big college recruiting program (for top colleges only) and an excellent internship program. Interns not only got paid, but they got a car and housing also.
At a college job fair, fresh out of school.
At a college job fair, fresh out of school. Most companies have different tracks and techniques for hiring fresh faces, semi-skilled and senior.
Another idea would be to look for retired engineers. Some wanting to work with kids. Also looking for maybe a part time job or one where at least they have their summers off.
If I am talented or lucky, then everyone I know has been talented or lucky. None of my friends with 4 year college degrees in the liberal arts is currently unemployed - except by choice. One freelances. A few own their own business. Most make $80k+ a year. My husband is Anthropology, my best friends are Sociology, Liberal Studies, English, Psychology, Political Science.
Its possible that the economy has swung enough that that won’t be the case for our kids - but the friend’s daughter who just graduated with an Anthropology degree is making decent money in public relations. She will be outearned by my other friend’s son who is getting a CSci degree, but probably not for long. She is a thinker and go-getter. He is a plodder who will have a comfortable career coding while she becomes his boss.
Moreover, studies have shown that while liberal arts majors start slow, they usually end up doing just fine financially. Yeah, there might be a few years of barista before you find the spot you fit into, but you are not doomed to pouring expensive coffee forever.
That shows the value of STEM if you can just plod along and make a good salary–which I agree is the case. There are many good paying jobs in STEM which are little more than button pushing. In my company, there are people in test who are just following a pre-written testplan. As long as they can follow directions, they can make $70-80k.
It can be harder to just plod along with a history degree or something and make good money. You have to be more of a self-starter, rockstar, etc. That kind of person may have a more personally-satisfying career, but it may take a bit more effort and time to achieve financial stability.
My experience is that people with History degrees don’t tend to be plodders. You guys are talking about a History degree like you can sit in class and get a B.A. after four years - but in actuality, you’ll be writing four or five 20 page papers a semester your Junior and Senior year - for my MINOR twenty years ago I had to take a class that involved original research. One of my Russian History courses was ten weeks long and had 3000 pages of required reading. One of my Art History courses had all its reading in German. Reading German was not a prereq for the class - it was suggested if you didn’t read German (I didn’t) you get a translator (one of my girlfriends is fluent).
There are a lot of people who major in Art History or History or Sociology believing it to be easy - but this coursework isn’t easier than an engineering degree - its just different. You don’t tend to need too much math (although stats is helpful and probably required for a lot of liberal arts degrees), so a lot of people who go into liberal arts do so because business is boring and math is “hard.” But if you aren’t prepared to write 30 pages comparing Monet’s haystacks, you aren’t going to GET an Art History degree. And writing a convincing 30 pages to get passed by someone who has a PhD and whose work is all on Impressionists is not going to be simple word vomit.
That’s one of the things that saved my career - I love to talk in public, I can write excellent papers and I can teach. That makes me quite rare in my field, and thus in demand despite my handicap.
Engineers who are more than one-dimensional can have a much better work environment and make tons more money than those who want to come to work at 8, sit in front of a computer and design the same pipe hangers they designed 1, 5, or 10 years ago, and get up at 5 and go home.
Many managers these days find it in their short term interest to chain their engineers at their desks. Why go to a conference when you can write 100 more lines of code.
And then these companies wonder why they fall behind. Or worse. A project I was on had a disaster when the people working on it, who were too busy to read those worthless papers - were not aware of something they were doing had a serious problem.
The drudges may do better for a few years - but then they get left behind by changes they were not aware of, or by forgetting how to learn new things.
Yup - Poli Sci major here who has made one hell of a career in management consulting, followed by tech. For the philosophy majors:
Good, because that’s me. Having had my career ruined by a jerk who made me promises as well as making me push the same buttons for ten years, not to mention underpaying me and telling me lies to justify it then trying to steal my severance package when he laid me off, I’ve decided the engineering profession can take a long walk off a short pier. Gonna get my B.Ed. and if all goes well teach physics to high school kids.
It’s a bit hard to sympathize if you decide to stay at the same job for an entire decade.
The way a lot of people are talking, it’s almost as if the expectation is they get a degree, then they take a job doing the same thing forever. Do people not plan to progress in their careers or go into management at some point?
I think the median years worked for current employer is about four and a half years. Although it’s longer for older workers. Anyone interested in reading more should check out BLS reports on “employee tenure”.