Is it time to stop calling the under-30 set "over-pampered, self-indulgent, spoiled brat babies"?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I saw this on Cracked a few days ago and it really struck home for me. This is how the kids born between 1980 and 1990 were treated by their parents and it convinces me more than over that coming back home after college is here to stay and will lose its “loser” label very soon. Hopefully, it’ll even convince some of the douchiest of douchebags that “why don’t you just get a job?” is not helpful advice for a lot of people.

5 Ways We Ruined the Occupy Wall Street Generation

[QUOTE=Cracked]
#5. Making You Ashamed to Take Manual Labor Jobs

#4. Implying That College Would Guarantee You a Good Job

#3. Adding Seven More Years to Being a Teenager

#2. Creating the Idea that Entertainment Has No Monetary Value

#1. Taking Away Every Reason To Go Outside
[/QUOTE]

Granted, #2 and #1 are pretty weak sauce, but I think Cracked has nailed it for once.

2

I’m generally in favor of the whole OWS thing but, no, I don’t think anyone gets a free pass for not trying to better their life and then complaining about it. Sure, I was raised being told that I didn’t want to flip burgers for a living. There’s a good reason for that – it’s damn hard to live on burger flippin’ wages. You know what’s even worse than having to admit that you flip burgers? Explaining that you got your car repossessed or evicted from your apartment because you were too proud to flip burgers or pump gas. I had a girlfriend like that once; she sat around unemployed for months and trashed her credit and had repo men at her door because she thought she was too good to work at Taco Bell while she sent out resumes for something better.

No one wants to be 35 years old and working an entry level position in a low wage job. But I have infinitely more respect for the middle age people working the register at McDonald’s or delivering my pizza than for someone acting self entitled and then hiding behind “Mommy and daddy made me this way” as an excuse.

For that matter, I take exception to the idea that “manual labor jobs” begin and end with fast food. When I was younger, I can’t tell you how many times I’d hear a conversation like this:
“You don’t want to be a garbage man when you grow up!”
“Actually, garbage men make really good money and you pretty much have to know someone to land a job as one…”

Likewise, while your mother was saying you didn’t want to flip burgers for a living, she was probably also shaking her head and wondering how two hours work by a plumber/mechanic/roofer/exterminator/HVAC technician/whatever could run her $250. Sure, those are trade jobs and maybe they aren’t the dream of sitting behind a desk collecting a paycheck for getting the Pendleton file prepared for the big meeting. But they’re perfectly legitimate ways to pull down a living. You might actually have to get off your ass and work your way through trade school and/or a union apprenticeship to get such a job but them’s the breaks.

Now this doesn’t really affect how I feel about the OWS thing which, in my opinion, isn’t a question of how many McDonald’s jobs are out there (those dudes in Chicago were just being dicks) but rather a larger question of economic mobility, its disruption due to several factors and the treatment of the rich versus the working class. But some angry white-guy conservative seed gets watered in my liberal soul when I hear someone making excuses about why being unemployed is better than flipping burgers, pumping gas, running a register, cleaning up roadkill, collecting scrap steel for recycling or damn near anything that’ll make you a dollar but isn’t illegal.

3

I can’t add anything to what **Jophiel **said.

4

As I say;

There are no jobs beneath you. There are only jobs you don’t want to do.

I work surrounded by kids in their early 20’s. We don’t make huge mad dough, but for someone starting out and getting experience, it’s a helluva lot better than flipping burgers.

Our #1 source of attrition is Attendance. People just don’t show up to the point of getting fired, at a pretty horrific rate. Since we staff 7 days a week, only the most senior people get both weekend days off (shift bids). I’ve worked Tuesday to Saturday since I started, primarily because I like my shift and don’t want to change. But the point is that you’re going to have to work one or both of Saturday and Sunday.

And then we regularly have 15-20% absenteeism on the weekends.

You know, if you’re working at PetSmart or Taco Bell, I’m pretty certain you’re going to have to work weekends too.

5

As a current college student, I tend to be very pissed at people who mope and complain about the job market, yet won’t work in fast food or retail when offered the job. I work my ass off during the summer as a waitress and a cashier so I can earn money to pay for college and get where I want to go in life.

The attitude that “But that’s beneath me!” makes me want to slap people. I have co-workers who have awesome life stories and have taught me to look at the world in a ton of different perspectives. You also learn how to deal with random bullshit that life throws at you, (or, you kinda throw at yourself when you drop the glass ketchup bottle :stuck_out_tongue: ).

I would definitely be a totally different person if my parents and close friends of the family had not raised me to work hard.

6

In my own family I have an aunt and uncle who struggled in menial jobs and later owned a small liquor store, but whose son is now a professor at MIT. People used to be willing to work hard all their lives just for a chance at a better life for their children.

7

I agree with you one people who aren’t willing to work in fast food and retail. Mostly because I am willing and spent much of the summer looking for a job with no luck. I’ll admit that I didn’t want to work at a fast food place, but I was willing to if that’s what I needed to do.

8

insert possibly apocryphal quote from Socrates :“Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.”

9

Those words in the title sound awfully familiar. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I’m kind of sick of hearing about “kids these days” too. I’m not a “kid”, but that doesn’t mean I can’t see what the hell is going on. If a whole generation of people aren’t tough “enough”, how can it possibly be their fault? Generations aren’t created in a vacuum. People don’t raise themselves.

I’m also kind of sick of the military being used as a blanket solution for every aimless, flailing man-child out there. Especially given the current geopolitical climate, where going into the Army means shipping out to war. And why would we want to fill the ranks of the military with lazy slackers anyway? The Army isn’t some glorified summer camp! People kill me with that “ship him to the military” stuff.

FWIW, I do think some people–both younger and older–have gotten too big for their britches and think they are too good for some lines of work simply 'cuz their parents told them to shoot for the stars and pursue dreams rather than be realistic. But the under-30 aren’t the only ones facing reality. Really, it’s Generation Xers and younger Boomers who are being slammed in the face with a clue-by-four. They’ve been whining a lot longer than younger people have. Plus, they actually should know better.

10

For one thing, I wouldn’t say it’s the entire generation that has these issues. For another, there’s a time you stop crying about mommy and daddy and take command of your own life. Hopefully, that time is well prior to age 25.

11

yeah, well, I kind of agree. I think everyone on this planet (including myself) needs a good hard punch in the face to bring them (us) back to earth. but that’ll never happen.

12

Since I know I’m not over-pampered, self-indulged, spoiled or a brat, I don’t really care what people think or say. The people whose opinions are important know my work ethic from my work and not from articles about the Millenial Generation. As far as I’m concerned, stuff like that is just code for “I have nothing useful to say.”

13

FWIW, most of the “generation Y” people I know are actually good people. They show up to work, do their job, and live their lives. They’re not hipsters, slackers, or spoiled. The few gen Y’ers I know who fit the stereotype were raised to be that way by overindulgent Boomer parents. Who were raised to be that way by overindulgent Greatest Generation (what a crock!) parents. Let the circle of life continue.

14

Yup.

I will also agree with Chimera’s

I used to manage a movie theater (talk about a “beneath me job” - but I knew I was damn lucky to have it!) and though for the most part (as MsRobyn stated) I had quite a few good-to-great employees, there were always a handful who obviously had zero work ethic, no concept of the real world, or were just plain indignant about having to “do something” for money.

On the minor spectrum I had a guy who lasted about a week who when I politely asked him to sweep the lobby (this was a single-screen theater with a lobby about the size of a postage stamp) replied “Geez! Why are you always bossing me around?!?!” (Because I’m your boss?* Do you not understand the concept? You’ve never watched a sitcom where people have a job and there is a chain of command? etc.) Another guy didn’t show up for work on a Saturday night and explained “oh I wanted to go see KISS that night.” :confused: Then you ask for the night off or get someone to cover your shift. How hard is that? Best ever though was a guy I never hired - why? He showed up for his job interview in a baseball cap with a pot leaf on it. REALLY?!??! I’m surprised he lowered himself to actually fill out a job application. :rolleyes:

*I’d like to state for the record I wasn’t some sort of tyrant, but I wasn’t a patsy either. I wasn’t afraid to drop the hammer on people who weren’t cutting the mustard and they were always shocked because all the previous managers for some reason put up with their crap. If you were a good worker I treated you accordingly: with friendship and respect. One of the nicest things anyone ever said to me (and I still remember this even though it must’ve been 15 years ago) was when one of my better employees resigned because his family was moving or something and he said “Thanks for being a fun boss.”

15

WEll, you have to keep in mind that there are NO jobs…here in the Boston area, the unemployment rate for 18-35 year old people is staggering. The reason? No local manufacturing anymore, service jobs being filled by illegal aliens, and the general bad state of the economy.
This recession is really more like the 1930’s great depression.
NOw Obama and Bernanke are syaing that this will go on for another 3-4 years…not good.

16

Since I turn 30 tomorrow I say, no, no it’s not.

17

If this is directly about the “OWS Generation” (as the generalized anti-corporate, neo-hippie culture it has become, not specifically targeting Wall Street), it is a completely understandable and noble choice to refuse fast food/retail jobs. Why would anyone want to be an accomplice to a corporation that they believe is a negative force in the world, through the creation of miserable dehumanizing work, materialistic culture, environmental pollution, factory farming of unhealthy food, exploitation of people in developing countries, or whatever your cause is? Just because they’ll pay you? Wouldn’t that be selfish?

Hippies used to say that there would be no wars if no one showed up to fight them. Well, maybe there would be no evil corporations and shitty jobs if no one showed up to work them. I understand that people are desperate and just trying to survive, but stop equating having a job with doing a good deed.

18

Sure. I read a news story not too long ago about a local warehouse that opened. Eighty entry level positions doing third shift warehouse work and over 900 applicants on the first day.

But this isn’t about the 900 people who decided that they weren’t too good to schlep boxes because society taught them to avoid manual labor. Or even those who’d love to have the job but they couldn’t work a 11pm-7am shift because of their children. It’s about the ones who didn’t bother.

If that’s how they feel, they have nothing to complain about when Goldman Sachs doesn’t give them a cushy desk job either. Go farm llamas out in the hills and sell wool on eBay or something instead of bitching.

19

People who refuse to lower their standards to apply for menial or low-prestige jobs once reality sets in need to get their shit together, there’s no question about that.

But I think there’s a real grievance here, IMO especially regarding #4 & 5 above. For example: My father went to university – one of my grandfather’s great aims in life – and before even sitting his exams was hired for a government job by a recruiter, without ever having sent an application for it; they even sweetened the deal by giving him a full scholarship for a one-year postgraduate study at one of the world’s top universities overseas. He had that job, which he loved, until he retired last year. My mother got a high school diploma – which was also considered unusual for the time in her family – and on graduation could essentially pick any job out of the newspapers. To them and their generation, it was natural that one went straight from university to a good job, and that’s what they expected of their children.

So I had a conversation about this issue with a colleague the other day; I’m 27, she’s about the same. All through school, we’re told by our parents and all our teachers that we just need to get a bachelor’s degree and we can get a decent job – maybe not a dream job, but something that’ll pay all the bills if we live on a sensible budget. Then we got our BAs, but whoops, now a BA is a requirement even for menial jobs. Even with my BA from one of the world’s top 5 universities, I can’t get a “real” job. So we do our MAs, since that’s now what we need for a (1) job in our field (2) job paying more than minimum wage and/or (3) job that can lead to an actual career path. Again, this is what we’re told by family, teachers, and now recruiters and the press. Thank the maker that we’re both Europeans and our studies are free. Well, I got my first MA at age 21 and still couldn’t get a “real” job. The place I was living in had virtually no jobs at all within a 100km radius; I applied for a position as a cleaner, and the rejection letter said they had got more than 200 applications for a single position. So I managed to scrape by on part-time jobs such as driving a delivery van (wouldn’t have paid the rent in a subsidised, shared apartment even; thankfully I lived with my parents); teaching scuba diving (net loss for me); and working security in a country with laws such that the only thing security guards can do is lower the insurance premium for the contractor (actually decent money during the summer; would have been a net loss over the winter. I also got a guarantee that even though I was one of their best, most conscientious workers, there was no chance in hell I could ever get a full-time position or any chance of advancement – the firm just wasn’t creating those sorts of positions, even though the business was immensely profitable). In the meantime I worked on learning more languages and other skills, just to pass the free time. Now I’m doing a second MA, and like my colleague, doing an unpaid internship on the far side of the world, because that’s the apparent new standard for getting a job after studies. This time, thankfully, I get a small scholarship. My wife and I’s combined income is around US$2000/month; we survive.

So in essence, everything I’ve been told about how to prepare for reality has been wrong. I’ve gladly taken any jobs that I could get, but these days European countries have youth unemployment rates above 25%. Before I moved to Brazil, I looked at all the options I could think of; trade jobs (plumbing, carpentry, etc.) simply didn’t have any apprenticeships available unless you knew somebody, and even then the waiting list was years-long. Niche jobs with special qualifications were oversaturated already. Banking, well, we saw how that worked out – recently HSBC made record profits IIRC and still laid off thousands of low-level employees.

Now, I have a few aces up my sleeve and a handful of real prospects for a stable, if not prosperous, future. But I do believe that, despite the image of the current youth as spoiled slackers, my generation has been screwed over, compared to that of my parents. Pointing that out is fair, and rectifying it is an absolute necessity if the industrialised world is to maintain its standard of living. Furthermore, I think that the focus often directed at displaying my generation as spoiled slackers too good to take menial jobs is putting blinders on society against seeing and rectifying the genuine underlying problems.

To be fair, the OWS movement is doing a pretty poor job at airing grievances too…

20

Our biggest issues with our 20-somethings isn’t attendance, it’s entitlement, expectations and sloppiness. These kids are making a shitload of money right out of college when they start at our company. They don’t get that making that shitload of money means that there are certain responsibilities above and beyond what an hourly employee might have. For example, if something needs to be done for the vice president by x date and you might have to work a few hours overtime, you do it. You don’t leave early. You don’t get paid extra (see shitload of money above). You manage your time appropriately and if that doesn’t get it done within standard work hours, you ask for help and stick around to help, too, until the job is done. Conversely, you can sometimes take off early and not have to take PTO for it, but that’s because you also have to stay late sometimes and not get paid extra. We have a couple of dick employees (both early 20s) who will try to palm things off on other employees when they need help, then leave early because someone else is doing it.

Also, many seem to feel that they have some entitlement to surf the internet at work and maintain their privacy. We’re constantly telling our youngest employee to get the hell off facebook and do his work. We also have to keep reminding him that even though his work goes through a review process, that doesn’t mean that he can do a shitty job. For some reason, he doesn’t understand that his work should be as flawless as he can make it before someone else has to look at it because he’ll get it right back if it sucks.

That said, a large part of it is work ethic. A lot of people - young and old - just don’t seem to have it. Personally, there’s never been a question of me working. Whenever I’ve been unemployed, it’s never been if I get a job - it’s when. And there is a statute of limitations beyond which I will not go unemployed, even if it means taking a job at McDonald’s.

That said, I think in some sense the U.S. is missing the boat when it comes to having families stay together for longer. There should be rules - each member of the family must contribute - but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve wished that I had the support of close family nearby. I don’t think kids should be allowed to freeload - if they’re going to live at home, they have to have a job or be in school - but they would also be able to start life without a mountain of debt. Then again, you’d have to live with them even if they annoyed the hell out of you.