Are we fighting for Israel?

Great Debates
21

It seems to me that the OP is seeing bogey-men where they don’t exist, and is stringing several unrelated issues to bolster a position which he/she knows to be , um, unpalatable.

Our position as sole superpower is due to the loss of the world’s second traditional superpower, the Soviet Union. I suspect that Jews may have played a part in the development of their nuclear arsenal. The collapse of the soviet union was due more to the inefficiency of an unwieldy political system than to some secret Jewish cabal. I would consider China to be well on its way to Superpowerdom. How many Jews do you think were involved there?

Kuwait, for one. Iraqi Kurdistan, for another.

22

Staying out of the entire Jews control crap … and the laughable arrogance of chigger imagining him/herself talking down to the level of most in this forum who can’t understand the complexity of his lofty thoughts … is the basic fact that American Jews, even American Jews of Power and Influence, are far from a homogenous opinion block. I am pro-Israel but very much against this operation in Iraq. So are the majority of the Jews I know. But a few are anti-Israeli actions. Some are War on Iraq hawks. Some are fairly apathetic.

It is the US’s best interest to have Iraq disarmed. It is the world’s interest. An Iraq with WMD is a threat to the region and would provoke a regional arms race. In an area full of bad actors. Once a program is fully functional it is too late for intervention as it becomes too costly (see N Korea). But I still think that this war was the wrong approach at this time. So much for my power and influence.

23

chigger, I suggest you apply some intellectual accuity (sic) to actually reading the responses to the OP, none of which confirm that “the motivation for this war on our part is the protection of Israel”. After you made the claim quoted above, a couple of posters have subsequently come along to lend some support to your theories, again without the remotest shred of evidence. Most have countered or ridiculed your suspicions.

What you’ve actually ‘confirmed’ is that, in addition to many people who criticize Israeli policy on the basis of thought and conviction, there’s a proportion of Israel-haters who function on the basis of their irrational feelings towards Jews. And that on a message board this size, you’ll find a few people who are willing to “confirm” through innuendo that yes indeed, there are monsters under the bed.

24

Not committed either way? :rolleyes:

So our alliance with Israel is what led to 9/11? If that’s what you are referring to, please go learn something about the region, al-Qaeda, our history in the region and our motives for most of our actions in the region. The present situation can’t be boiled down to any one factor and even with the removal of any one factor, attitudes towards the US in the region would likely be the same.

25

The OP seems to be playing a new version of “6-degrees of Kevin Bacon,” wherein he starts on one side with Jewish voters and arrives on the other side, claiming that the current military adventure in Iraq is for the benefit of Israel, via (presumably) the all-powerful “Zionist media.”

The exact mechanism of this tortuous logical chain has yet to be described/demonstrated. So, the “jewish voters” um, go to the polls, and, er… vote to have the zionist media beat the drums of war in order to…I don’t know… manipulate the government to attack Iraq in order to defend Israel? Is that how it works? pretty slick, but you seem to have left out the role of the “financiers.”

From what I have observed, this war was initiated against pretty much the will of most of the world by a small number of people in the Bush and Blair government, not by the New York Times. I don’t think you would describe President Bush, Prime Minister Blair or any of their inner circle as representing the “Learned Elders of Zion,” would you?

One last point.

Israel seems to be able to defend itself from Iraq, thankyouverymuch. Witness their pre-emptive attack on the Iraqi nuclear facility.

26

Ok, ok. Jesus H. Christ. Stop the screeching.

I recognized from the early replies to my OP that I should not have said anything about anybody having any kind of bias that appears in any form of any politics or power anywhere at anytime. Although I’m sure I would have been showered with ‘attaboys’ and hand-jobs if I had railed against the Southern U.S. WASP. Consider me duly washed.

I believe that a primary motivation for this fight is to “pre-emptively” protect Israel. Others (including persons on this board) seem to agree or at least not disagree. Take for example this randomly selected (from Yahoo news) quote from an AP report on an anti-war protest in Yemen:

"Protesters pushed ahead, picking up stones and tear gas canisters and hurling them at police. Crowds shouted, “No American and no British Embassy on Yemeni land!,” and, “Death to America! Death to Israel!”

My main question is, I think, more obviously stated in my first reply. No one adressed it, so I guess the attempt to communicate carefully actually obscured the question in “technicolour bullshit”. So, I’ll try it in simple street language unencumbered by more generally accepted rules.

Word up, yaw. If this, you know, cover for Israel, then why don’t , you know, Bush and them, you know, like just come on out wid it one way or the other? And, you know, why somebody over here get all beat up when they, you know, do? And them protestors, you know, wanna leave Israel to the wolves? 'Cause then they,you know, anti-semites just like them dudes over in Yemen. I mean, what up with that … beeutch.

P.S. Along the subject, a photo in Yahoo slide-show of protests in Brazil shows the burning of a U.S. flag with swastikas instead of stars in the blue field. Carnaval of Irony.

27

Got any proof that the purpose of the current conflict is to pre-emptively protect Israel? Bear in mind, if you please, that nutty whack-job “Protocols” conspiracy theories are just that and not proof.

28

Ritually ignoring any opinions or facts that contradict you is a poor reflection on your debating skills.**

How exactly does mob sentiment in Yemen “confirm” that we are fighting a war for Israel?
**

The phony racial dialect just adds to a classy image. All you need now is to put on blackface and act out the L.A. riots.

Congressman Moran got “beat up” not because he made a “non-politically correct assertion”, but because he chose, without bothering to make even a remotely plausible case, to single out an minority group to blame the war on. In America, we generally treat this sort of ethnic scapegoating with censure and ridicule.

29

Hmmm. Chiggers are larval mites that suck human blood and cause an itchy annoying rash that speads infections. Little tiny things that I imagine think much of themselves. Irritating little buggers. Hmmm.

Yo Dude. The fact that Yemini protesters hate both Israel and the US is such conclusive evidence that the US is Israel’s bitch. Uh huh. Get this shocking news: the US does what the US percieves is in her own best interest. Sometimes that will coincide with Israel’s. Sometimes not. Sometimes with humanitarian goals. Sometimes not. The US may be an ugly imperialist superpower doing what she wants cause no one can stop her, but she aint no ones lapdog.

Anyone have any Deep Woods Off?

(Mod, save your reprimand, I know, save it for the Pit, okay.)

30

Giving the benefit of the doubt here.

First of all most of the anti-war rallies around the globe double as Free Palestine rallies for some reason. I really don’t think that’s the fault of the US - that’s the result of political or social movements within those countries to identify with the Palestinian problem, and then in turn identify the Palestinian problem with the Iraq one. The US has its share too. I don’t see the influence of Jews in our US society as being any greater than that of the French, the Spanish or the English, the pagans or Puritans, throughout history and like someone else said the WASPs have the most power. There’s no doubt that Christianity is the dominant religion and Catholics alone outnumber Jews by about 10:1. So that whole idea of Jewish power is debatable.

Second, Israel itself is experiencing major attacks by militants, but we also suffered a major attack by militants. We now have a heightened interest in people who spout “death to America” and/or “death to Israel” for all kinds of good reasons. We see the realities of their efforts that they would normally only view as collateral damage - for example an “attack on Israelis” at a hotel in Kenya results in dead Kenyans as well. The Bali bombing - dead Austrailians. The destruction of the WTC in particular was a melting-pot kind of tragedy. The US believes that Saddam is no more than a terrorist himself and that removing him will benefit Iraqis and Israelis and some others in the immediate, but just about everyone in the long run. I tend to agree.

Another thing…if there were groups calling for the destruction of Portugal or something, and running around the globe bombing things to prove that point, would anyone question our going after them? I doubt it.

31

Here’s a question for Chigger- WHY would the Republicans feel any need to fight for Israel?

The great majority of American Jewish voters are Democrats, usually very liberal Democrats. The Jewish vote almost NEVER goes to the Republicans. So, Republicans have absolutely NOTHING to gain by pandering to Israel, since they don’t stand to pick up many Jewish votes whatever they do.

Why, then, do the Republicans usually support Israel? To curry favor with people who’ll be voting a straight Democratic ticket in November? I doubt it.