I must confess ignorance on the topic of US support for Israel. I know we have been their steadfast ally for all of my life. But for some reason I can’t recall the circumstances of how this came to be. How about a little help here.
gonna catch hell for this but basicly its because there were more wealthy Jews than Palestinians in the U.S in 1947. So we dumped the Jewish refugees in Palestine and gave them enough arms to kill every Palestinian that didn’t go along with it.
In WWII, all across Europe, millions of jews were rounded up like cattle, torn from their homes, seperated from their families and friends, and were forced to live and exterminated in conditions that make a slaughterhouse look like a Holiday Inn.
Those that survived no longer had countries or properties or homes.
Many nations desired to help these refugees start over after the holocaust, and give them their own nation.
By doing so, other people were uprooted from their homelands. We had underestimated their attachment to the territory, and we were lax in looking after the needs of the people we had displaced, in our efforts to make amends after the holocaust.
We also underestimated the strength of the rabid anti-semitism that pervades the mideast.
The land that is Israel has changed hands many times over the last several thousand years. The Palestinian situation was handled poorly and it was wrong to rip their land from them.
It would also be wrong to rip the land from the citizends of Israel who have called it home for more than 50 years.
Had the efforts, energy, and money spent on hate-mongering in the disputed territory been applied to resolving the situation, all parties involved have benefitted as a result.
Sadly we are human, and we do not always behave as best we could. War and hate have made it difficult if not impossible for friendly relations between Israel and her neighbors.
Though there are legitimate gripes against how Israel was founded, she exists, and she should not be destroyed out of hatred.
Oh, please. Justin’s reply is absolute bull shit. If the anti-Israel Palestinians were all killed in 1947, where did the refugees come from?
Let me correct that first. In 1948 (not 1947), the United Nations created two states, a Jewish State (Israel) and an Arab State (presumably Palestine) in the region. The Arab nations opposed the creation of a Jewish state, and launched a war against it on the day of its creation.
The Jews appealed to the Arabs to stay where they were, to join the new state(s). Many Arabs did so, and became Israeli citizens, with full rights (including the right to vote.)
The Arab nations appealed to the Arabs living in the region to flee the area, on the promise that they would “drive the Jews into the sea” and confiscate the entire property, which would be given to the Arabs.
Many many of the Arabs believed these promises, and fled, housed in refugee camps where they remain to this very day. Despite several wars intended to destroy Israel, the surrounding Arab states did not succeed. And they found it politically more expedient to leave the Palestinians in refugee camps, rather than to assimiliate them. (In contrast, the huge numbers of Jewish refugees fleeing the Arab states were absorbed by Israel and became Israeli citizens.)
It was not until after the 1967 war that the term “Palestinian” was used, to try to arouse sympathy for the refugees, who received no aid or support from their Arab brethren… until they started terrorist activities, and then the Arab states gave them weapons. Not food, not schools, not aid, but weapons.
SO that’s the story of 1948.
Now, why does the U.S. support Israel?
Several reasons. First, the Arab states were historically been anti-U.S. and pro-Soviet Union. In Cold War days, the Arab states could be counted on to vote against the U.S. and with the Soviets, as a bloc. Israel was pro-U.S., and represented the only pro-U.S. foothold in the region.
Second, Israel is a democracy. The Arab states are, without exception, dictatorships or monarchies, and the like. The U.S. was often criticized for upholding petty dictators around the world (to prevent them from going communist). Here is one instance where the U.S. was able to support a democracy.
Third, it is certainly true that there are more Jews than Arabs in the U.S., and furthermore that Jews were always active in political causes, supporting candidates with votes and contributions and activity. The same could be said of Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, and many other hyphenated-Americans… and the U.S. tends to be supportive of such countries. Find me the politician who says “Bah, Humbug!” on St Patrick’s Day in Chicago, and I will show you someone who will not be re-elected.
Fourth, Israel has made advances in military technology that it has shared with U.S. Israel developed various irrigation techniques that it shared with U.S. Israel purchases equipment from U.S. manufacturers, and has been a significant trading partner and supporter of the U.S.
That help, Portajon?
<< It would also be wrong to rip the land from the citizends of Israel who have called it home for more than 50 years. >>
I agree with your sentiment, Scylla, but I’d correct your facts. You imply that the area was “Palestinian” for centuries and that the Jews are newcomers. In fact, there was continuous Jewish occupation of many parts of the land, for the last 3,000 years. There were massive waves of immigrants in the 1880s through 1920, and again after WWII. The land has been called “home” by Jews since around 1200 BC (according to Biblical text) and since 1000 BC by current archaeological knowledge.
From WWI through the creation of the state of Israel, the land was occupied in different areas by Jews and by Arabs; hence, the 1948 U.N. resolution creating two states, one Jewish and one Arab, as I described above.
On top of all that, Israeli intelligence-gathering has been and is now an invaluable strategic resource.
CK,
When you mention the benefit that the US has received from Israel (technology,irrigation…) you forgot the spies that they sent us also.
Maybe the arab states were pro-russian because of the US support of Israel. Of course Israel supported the US, who is going to bite the hand that feeds them.
You imply that the area was a mixture of Jews and Arabs before 1947. What is the breakdown (percentage) and what was the government. There are a lot of mexicans in Texas, but the non-mexican Texans would not be happy if Mexico decided that the treaty of 18xx was invalid and dumped a couple of million mexicans and told the texans to share.
Dex:
Yes. People did get displaced, though. And, there were complaints that the division of territory between the Arab and Jewish states was not equitable. And, there was upset at the higher standards of living of the jewish areas. And, their was jealousy and racism, and not everybody was treated fairly.
So, I think there are legitimate complaints to be heard from the Palestinians. Not that that that excuses their subsequant actions. In fact I think they’ve lost any validity they might have had through their actions.
Besides, I was kind of going for a simple, big picture, touchy feely, Sesame Street kind of explanation. Targetting my audience, you know?
let set some rules for this discussion:
-
forget the emotion:If you look at the situation as People A vs People B (as opposed to good ol Jews vs. dirty arabs)
-
I don’t consider history before 1900 as relevant either.
I dont know anybody that was alive( or even their parents) at that time. -
Ally and friend is not the same term. Allies only help you went it benefits them.
Thanks for the help. This situation is just as I have always thought, no one really has a good reason. I still have not heard one GOOD reason for the support we extend to Israel. I have nothing against Jews…as a matter of fact I don’t think I know any personally. But if this land has been in dispute for so long and it seems we only recently joined the struggle, at what point do we tell our friends that the Arabs are now attacking on US soil and we can no longer afford to protect their spit of sand cause we have nearly a whole damn continent to defend. Kinda reminds me of Cuba and the communist block.
Here is some more information regarding the Palestine and Jewish State problem prior to the period discussed in detail by C K Dexter Haven.
Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Turks until 1918. The area was captured by the British at this time, aided by the Arabs. The British had promised the Arabs the independence of Palestine in 1915-1916, in return for this assistance.
The British, in their wisdom, had made other arrangements for the area, firstly with Russia and France, and secondly with the Jews, whose help was also required in WW1.
The agreement with the Jews was made in 1917, and is known as the Balfour Declaration, which formed the basis of the League of Nations mandate given to the British in 1922.
It is during the period of this mandate, which lasted until 1948, that the conflicting promises made to the Arabs and the Jews began to cause problems which still exist today.
The Arabs, or Palestinians, were not overwhelmed by the British undertaking made to the Jews, and began, justifiably as events turned out, to worry about dispossession of their territory.
The Jews, or Zionists if you will, envisioned large scale immigration to the area. Although the British tried to put a brake on the mass influx of Jews into Palestine, the spectre of Hitler and the Nazi party in Germany encouraged many Jews to leave that country and settle in Palestine.
Palestinian concern at Jewish domination caused them to revolt in 1936, and unrest in the area continued until 1939. Attempts were made by the British to reconcile the two parties during the period of their mandate, but the Palestinians refused to play ball because, in their view, discriminatory policies were being proposed.
Which brings us to WW2 and C K Dexter Haven, but not necessarily in that order.
The rest, as they say, is geography.
portajon:
That would be the day we lose this fight.
portajon
It is very important to have strategic footholds in regions for that very reason “that we have a whole country to defend.” In case you haven’t noticed, we don’t protect our country by withdrawing support from others – instead we do things like building multinational coalitions to fight. Israel is very helpful to the US in this regard – we have many of the same enemies, and therefore can share intelligence and strategies. Cuba and the communist block is actually a good example – Cuba has every right to self-determination and self-governance, just as Israel does. And Cuba chose to be communist and pro-Soviet just as Israel chose to be democratic and pro-American.
The fact of the matter is that Israel will always be a safe haven for Americans. That is something we can’t say about any other country in that region.
Just out of curiosity, what wouldconstitute a good reason.
If I apply your logic it seems we didn’t really have a GOOD reason to help Great Britain in WWII.
Yes, they did do that and yes it was a slap in the face for the US. While that angered me as well I think it helps to understand some of the Israeli mentality and that is that they cannot, will not, rely on anyone but themselves for their protection. They’ll take help where they can get it but never to the point of reliance on another.
Regardless of whether you think Israel should be where it is the fact remains that it is there and it is not going to leave willingly. Place yourself as Joe citizen of Israel. You are literally surrounded by enemies who have tried (very hard) to kill you on more than one occasion and in the not so distant past. You have terrorists who making bombings seem almost a routine occurence. Your best ally in the world is a flaky, changeable government prone to swinging with the political wind of the moment and cannot be counted on for unfailing support.
Given these realities I can’t blame Israel for having spies within our government. I don’t like it but I understand it.
I don’t see how or why these ground rules should apply.
-
Taking jews and arabs out of the equation no longer makes a discussion about jews and arabs meaningful. We aren’t talking about Brazilians and Japanese here which People A and People B might as well be if they aren’t defined as jews and arabs.
-
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana
The middle east is steeped in history. One of the major sticking points in the mid-east peace process is what happens to Jerusalem. A city holy to three major religions. No one will budge on this point due to events that happened there millenia ago. Ignoring history is not the way to go…embracing and learning from it is.
- Your statement may be true from an ultimately cynical viewpoint (i.e. anything anyone does is for some self-serving interest). However, we will go further for our allies than we will for some country we are merely friendly with. Consider: Who do you suppose would receive more help from the US in a pinch (and at some cost to the US). Britain or (say) Denmark?
Was there any Jewish support for any war, cause, plight, fight etc. in the interest of any nation, including the US,other than their own interest? Did they fight in WW1? Did they fight in wwII? Did they come fight in Korea or Vietnam? Did they come fight with us in Iraq? Where the hell are they now during this conflict?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
No. They did something far harder. They stood by and did nothing while Hussain bombed their cities. They did this because we asked them to. We slighted our friend to protect the fragile coalition we had, which would not tolerate Israel’s presence. It may have been a mistake or an insult to ask them not to participate. But, like a good friend, and a true ally, they did what we asked.
Ready and willing to help us, like they’ve always been.
<sputtering>
Did they help us in iraq!? Jesus dude, you ARE ignorant! Now, I was only in high school at the time, but the war was televised, so you didn’t even need to read any pesky history books to know what happened.
The Gulf War was a UN effort. Israel is part of the UN. Israel was bombed by Iraq – their capital city, Tel Aviv was bombed – in an effort to provoke a retaliation. IF Israel had retaliated against Iraq, other Middle-eastern countries (such as Saudi Arabia) who were our allies would have dropped their support of the endeavor, and the coalition would have fallen apart. So Israel pretty much sat there, letting bombs fall on their capitol AT OUR REQUEST. If that isn’t taking on for the team, I don’t know what is.
Is the question, was there Jewish support for any of those wars, or was there Israeli support? Jews fought in all the wars you listed. Israel couldn’t have fought in WWI or WWII, obviously, it not existing as a country yet, didn’t fight in Korea or Vietnam and would have fought with the coalition in Iraq, but was asked not to by the US, who was afraid of offending Arab allies. In terms of where Israel is during this crisis, Prime Minister Sharon has offered his condolences, and Mossad is sharing information with the CIA and FBI.
Scylla, if you don’t mind a small correction, I think the better answer is “Here, having already been fighting it for the last twenty years.”
portajon- perhaps you should go take a look at this link, in which the author points out that the terrorists’ main foes are Westernism and modernity. As the U.S. is the prime force behind ‘Westernism’, it will always be a target, even if we pull completely out of the Middle East and look aside as Israel gets overrun.