Recently I got into a debate with a friend (formerly a girlfriend) about our role “according to God”.
In my view God (or god depending upon your beliefs) does not want us to be servants, but rather has provided us free will and the ability to think about and hopefully define our own rules.
In other words, free will is an indication that we are his children and as such are required to not only question “His” (or "Her) rules, but in many ways we should attempt to go beyond them. Short argument: we are touched and imbimbed with a “seed of the divine”.
Her idea is that only those who “bend to God’s will” can truly understand “God’s love”. Her belief is that there is no “seed of the divine” we at moments are filled with the Holy Spirit, which is still derived from “His” (or “Her”), not from inside us.
So I am very interested in hearing the opinion from this post, as we didn’t really find a common ground.
Thanks
Alex
PS This is my first post so treat me kindly :rolleyes:
Welcome to the Boards, longat24–you believe in jumping right into the deep end, don’t you?
If I believed in gods, they would be the gods of ancient Greece and Rome, and I would echo the character on a Blackadder episode who remoaned, “As private parts to the gods are we, they play with us for their sport.”
So first, I do aplogize for spelling imbibe wrong. Second bonus points for quoting Blackadder. Third I guess that chalks you up to “servants” :dubious:
And I don’t mean this to be a debate on whether God or god exists as the creator or as the creation, rather based on the respectful assumption that there is a god (Grekk Hindu or other) are we to be its servants to “bend towards its will”, or rather are we in essence its children with the eventual growth towards “maturity”.
The problem that you are likely to have is that different religions have different perceptions as to who God is, and what his requirements and/or plans are. And so if you mean to keep the question very global you may get very different answers.
If you restrict the question, to the Judeo-Christian God for example, the answers will have less divergence, but still will potentially vary quite a bit.
Alright, that is extremely fair. For this discusion, lets discuss then the Judeo-Christian God. Which is quite frankly the closest thing to my belief. In discussing what God wants of us do we think it to be as a servant, or as “His/Her” children.
I would say that the answer is both. Nor do I think that there is any contradiction in both being a child of God and a servant of him.
But, giving the definitions given from the discussion with your friend, I would have to say that there is more evidence to support your friend’s POV vs yours. (IMHO)
In fact, this concept comes up on Rosh HaShannah, the Jewish New Year. In Jewish literature, Rosh HaShannah is the day of judgement where all people in the world are judged by the Creator on our actions over the previous year and are hopefully inscribed in the Book of Life.
There is a short prayer which is said after the Shofar is blown. The text of which (my translation) is as follows:
Today is the birthday of the world
Today all the inhabitants of the world stand in judgement
as children (literally: sons) or as servants.
If as sons, have mercy on us as a father has mercy on his children
And if as servants our eyes look toward You until You are gracious and make our verdict as clear as light, O awesome and Holy One.
Well someone has to say it so I guess I’ll do it. If you claim that some entity X exists, the burden of proof is on you to prove that is does, not on me to prove that it does not.
As to the OP, if I were a believer I would say we are sort of God’s cheap non-unionized labor force
Whether I am a servant or a child I am certainly among the least favored for he has spent an inordinate amount of time speaking to some of his chidlren and none at all to me.
Why? I mean my believe is based on faith and just because you don’t have any faith that he does doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist. He just doesn’t exist to you now in this vapor of time we call know as the human lifespan. Later he will.
You are the one who said that there is no evidence that God does not exist. Belief and faith are not evidence of anything. It seems to me that if you require evidence of his non-existence you should be willing to provide the same for your assertion that he does exist.
[QUOTE=trandallt]
You are the one who said that there is no evidence that God does not exist. Belief and faith are not evidence of anything.
[quote]
I disagree with this statement. I believe that might faith believe provide all kinds of evidence. I would be willing to die in support of my believe that God does exist are you willing to die proving that God doesn’t?
I don’t require evidence that he doesn’t I was just turning around what I Love Me said.
[QUOTE=trandallt]
You are the one who said that there is no evidence that God does not exist. Belief and faith are not evidence of anything.
[quote]
I disagree with this statement. I believe that might faith believe provide all kinds of evidence. I would be willing to die in support of my believe that God does exist are you willing to die proving that God doesn’t?
I don’t require evidence that he doesn’t I was just turning around what I Love Me said.
I screwed up the quote on that post bad let me try again.
I disagree with this statement. I believe that myt faith and beliefs provide all kinds of evidence. I would be willing to die in support of my believe that God does exist are you willing to die proving that God doesn’t?
I’m not asserting the God does not exist. I’m pointing out where the burden of proof lies. The set of things that can be asserted to exist is infinite. To prevent insanity in daily life we usually believe only in those things that can be shown to exist. People seem willing to make an exception for what they call “God”. I will not. Faith is not evidence in spite of what Hebrews 11:1 may claim.
