Are we looking forward to Discworld - Making Money?

Cafe Society
41

Yeah, but so does the Watch. And they’re mostly not insane when taken as a group. Besides, there’s nothing else in Gilt’s behavior that comes across as particularly unstable. His grand scheme is to make himself a lot of money. He’s not tinkering in God’s domain, or creating horrible abominations against all that is good and holy. Heck, he doesn’t even have a proper maniacal laugh. He’s just a thief who thinks big, is all.

But not, I felt, in a dramatically satisfying way. It actually kind of undercut Gilt’s character, because honestly, you’d have to be pretty stupid to fall for that door trick.

42

I thought it was completely in Gilt’s character. He’d always been able to smile and walk away from the havoc he caused. Big-time con artist compared to Lipwig’s small-timer, who’d had plenty of experience with ducking out right before the mark caught on. His arrogance gave him the confidence to walk out the door, certain that nothing would ever rally happen to him. I’m sure Ken Lay never thought he’d do the perp walk, even when it was happening.

Oh, and I just found out my copy of MM shipped today! Hurray! Now I’ve got to clear my schedule on Saturday.

43

I disagree. If you’ve been arrested by Vetinari, and he says, “Work for me, or walk out that door and I’ll never trouble you again,” you’d have to be a prime-grade moron not to suspect a catch. Thinking you can put one over on Vetinari is arrogance. Thinking that Vetinari will just let you walk when he’s got you firmly in the palm of his hand is idiocy.

44

Well, while he was a jerk, so is half the Disc. What bothered me is that it basically said: “Well, he’s worse than the hero, but we can’t really define how, we’re just saying it is so, so he gets his just desserts.” But when it comes down to it, he wasn’t. He and the hero are virtually clones, and either one could have become the other had circumstances been a little different. And to punish one while rewarding the other for it, as if it were part of some cosmic justice, is obnoxious. Had it just been fate or chance or whatnot, so be it. And had this been a stand-alone novel, I wouldn’t mind. But we’ve seen over and over again in the Disc that for Main Characters things work out or not according to some weird cosmic karma/justice thing, so long as it’s funny.

45

To be honest I always suspected Gilt opened the door, saw the trap and killed himself deliberately. Its set up throughout that he is arrogant, proud, and dislikes Vetinari strongly, so it seems quite possible he would kill himself to spite Vetinari instead of taking the deal.

Since he seems to have been based on Robert Maxwell, an ambigous ending might be deliberate.

46

He was a multiple murderer. That’s quite a bit past “jerk.”

Actually, they’re very specific about how they’re different. Moist never killed anyone, and when confronted with the evidence of the damage he’d done to people’s lives, Moist felt remorse and attempted to atone.

I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say, here.

tirial, I hadn’t considered that. That does make sense, given Gilt’s character. I still have problems with the ending of the novel from a narrative point of view, but that does help me reconcile Gilt’s end with his established character.

47

I also got the impression that Gilt deliberately killed himself. Vetinari’s ambiguous answer to Drumknott at the end (Sadly, he did not believe in angels) doesn’t seem to imply an accident, but rather whiffs of despairing suicide.

48

HEY-HEY-HEY!
It arrived to-day!

And watch the spoilers, kiddos, mkay?

49

What spoilers?

50

The ones you are thinking about posting the second you finish the book. :smiley:

51

Ha, shows what you know! I finished the book seventeen hours ago. You think I’d be posting here, if I still had unread Pratchett waiting for me?

52

You are posting **Miller ** but not saying what you thought of it? Tease…

53

Oh, it was awesome. Not sure what purpose the subplot about the Glooper served, except as an excuse to have an Igor in the story. But they do give him two of the best jokes in the book, so I’m okay with it.

54

This is the disc. Half the characters around are multiple murderers and will kill rather casually. They have a licensed assassins guild.

Thing is, I don’t see that Moist would have cared had he not cared for the character who revealed it. Without some real reason to care, he didn’t.

55

I have to third (or fourth?) the idea that Gilt saw the trap, but took it anyway – in fact, until this thread I had never considered otherwise. However, I personally doubt that Gilt could feel such a thing as despair. I think that it was arrogance all the way down: he would rather take the doorway than lower himself to work for anyone, let alone Vetinari.

56

I’m a sick, sick person. Rather than wait until Amazon.uk delivered my matching copy, I hustled down to Barnes & Noble this afternoon and bought the American edition. I didn’t cancel my order, mind you. I just bought another copy so I could read it this weekend.

57

I bought it tonight. I got 20% off the cover for it being in B&N. I got 10% off for my membership with B&N and then I had a 15% off one book from B&N so I got the book for $16. Cool!

I have to finish the book I am reading and then start on Making Money.

Of course I spent another $40 on books for my kids, so I still did not get off cheap. B&N’s plan of luring me in with the 15% off worked perfectly. The clever bastards!

Jim

58

No, they aren’t, and no, they don’t. Seriously, how many major characters in the Discworld novels have taken a human (or similar) life? Well, okay, Death, but he doesn’t really count. Cohen the Barbarian kills pretty casually, but he’s only been a major character in (IIRC) two books, and his casual violence is usually used as a deliberate contrast to more civilized mores. Vimes has killed a few people, but never casually, and always as part of his duties as commander of the Watch. The distinction is a key point in his characterization, particularly in Thud! and The Fifth Elephant. Excluding Magrat going medieval on a bunch of elves, I don’t recall any of the witches ever actually killing anyone. Nor the wizards, for that matter. Has Susan ever killed anyone? Not counting her stints as Death’s understudy, of course.

So? If they’re licensed, then by definition, it’s not murder.

But seriously, how often has a member of the assassin’s guild been portrayed positively? Vetinari and Teppic from Pyramids are the only names I can come up with off the top of my head, and I don’t think Teppic ever actually killed anyone. And despite his fearsome reputation, I can only think of one time Vetinari actually took someone’s life: when he killed Lord Snapcase in Night Watch. Usually, assassins are villains or at best, stuck-up assholes.

Honestly, I can’t think of a single violent death in any of the Discworld novels that was not treated as a big deal. It’s either a crime that has a major impact on the plot (often being the impetus for it) or it’s a legally and morally justifiable end to the story’s villain. The nearest exception is Susan’s casual slaughter of an incapacitated Auditor in Thief of Time, but by their own defintions, Auditors aren’t people, and anyway, they were trying to destroy all life in the universe at the time, so I think that counts as justifiable homicide.

That’s incorrect. The person who first points out the consequences of Moist’s crimes (which engenders the first twinges of Moist’s conscience) is the golem, Pump.

59

Yep. Gotta agree with Miller. I just reviewed the entire canon, and I can’t find a single murder that isn’t A Big Deal as far as plot goes. Lots of death, but that is everywhere. People Who Murder are Dealt With, either by other characters or by Death.

Most of the Assassins have been novices, usually caught in some trap that Vimes has set, just to keep them on their toes.

60

My favorite moment in the entire series is the scene in The Fifth Elephant where Vimes refuses to make a casual joke about the death of Wolfgang, because that would change the act from policing, to murder (the exact quote would be most welcome).

Death (and indeed DEATH) is a very big deal within the story arcs, and joked about when it’s ‘off camera’.