As I am told that large sassy black women have been overheard to say, "M-hmm, gal, Thank you. " (I’ll never get the “generalization is bad unless it’s for southerners and ruralites” notion on this board and elsewhere.)
I think whites and blacks are both in denial. It’s like supporting a third party while the media act like there’s nothing but Democrats and Republicans. The white/black thing is so last century. They’ve become like Congress arguing over whether to spend two trillion or two-point-one trillion. Certainly, it’s clear by now indiginous people will never have the clout to be included in the decision making, but ignore Latinos at your own risk. I’m delighted to see their power increasing. Many of them have significant Indian heritage. Maybe the savages will take back the land after all.
I think you’ve got it. The race card has just been so overplayed that even when actual racism occurs today (which, IMO, is much rarer, and is not always white -> black), people won’t bother paying attention. The high-profile race baiting that so often hits the news (Duke, most recently), just further poisons the well.
No, it was actually assholes like McKinney and Michael Moore, and Kanye West playing the race card.
I don’t remember it exactly that way, although your implication that Nagin did not blame the fallout from Katrina on racism is, of course, wrong.
No, that would be you.
Regards,
Shodan
Are white people in denial about racism? If this thread is any indication, yes.
As everyone does. Just because SOME people claim it’s there when it’s not, that doesn’t mean there’s never a case of bigotry and inequality. And that goes for ANY racial prejudice. Or just prejudice in general-whether it’s racism, sexism, homophobia, religious fundamentalism, etc.
Could you elaborate a bit on what you find in this thread that indicates to you that ‘white people’ are in denial? Perhaps in full sentences and maybe a couple of those paragraph thingies?
-XT
Do individual instances of discrimination and bigotry occur? Of course. However, I’d like some of the folks here who think that racism is a huge issue in society to show me any evidence that it is holding back the progress of black people (or Latinos or whomever you choose). And simply pointing to racial inequality won’t work. You need to show that this racial inequality is due to racism.
One piece of such evidence has already been cited up-thread. It’s called stereotype threat, and it is partly a consequence of how the media portrays minorities.
And the next question should then be, are these problems caused by racism or caused some some sort of cultural defects that are more predominant in one racial group than another?
Surely you’re aware of recent studies that looked at the response from random companies to resumes from people who were obviously black (Shanequa Jones) vs resumes from people with generic sounding names (Patricia Smith). That would seem to me to be evidence of societal racism that would, to some extent, hold back the progress of blacks, as a group. Not all blacks, of course, but it’s as if society has stacked the deck. I’m not sure there is a way to eliminate that from society, but it’s pretty clear that it’s there.
Having lived in a VERY rural area before moving to a medium size city, I have to disagree. There were far more inter-racial couples when I lived in the sticks, than when I moved to the city. I can only think of one girl I dated that had not dated someone black beforehand.
It may just be the portion of Virginia I grew up in (which is probably quite different than that of Alabama), but those were my observations.
No, it’s not that clear at all. Freakonomics touched on this:
The full article is here: A Roshanda by any other name.
I think when looking at the Katrina disaster and the governmental response to it, the application of Hanlon’s Razor is very applicable.
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.”
I get the impression that some black people seem to think it’s ok to be racist, except against themselves. During my brief stint as a substitute teacher, a student seemed to think it was ok to declare “I hate white people” loudly to no one in particular during a bit of study hall time. Since I moved to a more rural, republican town, I’m either seeing or imagining a hell of a lot more racism. Cracker and gringo are acceptable and common, while the precious n-word warrants either a beating or a shaming. I get shit service in fast food joints staffed by a majority of black people, while a darker-skinned customer seems to be served quickly. I’m fairly racially ambiguous, though I’m clearly not black. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe the service is just shit. I don’t know, I give any place with poor service only two strikes before I stay away.
Now I’m not saying this is all black people, or even most. I’m sure as hell not saying only black people are racist. Nearly everyone is.
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I am white and attended a predominantly black university for graduate school. I got that attitude a lot! People would come up to me (and other white students) and say “You don’t belong here!” There was a lot of racial intimidation going on! What irritated me the most about it was the fact that no one would ever call the bullies on their behavior! One time this enormous fellow pushed me down in a hallway, and not one single person said anything to him about the attack! It would have helped a lot just to have one person say, “Hey! Don’t treat people like that!” But no one did a thing! You know, racial solidarity should not trump basic human decency!
But that’s exactly what racism is-- making assumptions about individuals based on what you [think you] know about the group. And remember, this was a controlled experiment where the resumes were identical, which would indicate as near identical qualifications as possible. It’s not the same as picking two random people, one from a pool with black sounding names and one from a pool of generic sounding names. The employers had the change to evaluate them on their merits, and still discounted their ability based solely on their names (and, presumably, their race).
Again, I never denied individual acts of racism. But the evidence seems pretty clear that these individual acts aren’t reponsible for racial inequalities.
But this was a study of systemic bias. (You also failed to respond to my earlier example).
You have a good point, but to play devil’s advocate, the employers could have been discounting them based on, not their race per se, but on their presumed background as the child of an “unmarried, low-income, undereducated, teenage mother.” So, again, it’s not always easy to distinguish discrimination based on race from discrimination based on socioeconomic class.
I wonder what the results would have been to a similar study that compared resumes with generic-sounding names to those with names like “Cletus,” “Bubba,” and “Billy Jim Bob.”