Every one of those cites say that there IS tipping in Australia! And, more or less as my cites have said- 10% for exceptional service in high end restaurants. Your very own cites contrdict you when you said “So please, don’t tip if you’re in Australia”- they say: please *do *tip in Australia… when recieving exceptional service- but not routinely like the nigh mandatory system in America.
And only two aussies have wieghed in on this, AFAI can see. One New Zealander, also- Banquet Bear, altho agreeing that Tipping isn’t everywhere or very common did also say: "Has tipping increased in New Zealand (and Australia-the industries are very similar)? Absolutely.
It was rather telling that one tourist mentioned that only in *one *restaurant “down under” during his entire trip, did he NOT see the expected place on the bill to include a tip. If no one tips down there, why is there a space on the credit card reciept for it?
Note that one the prvious thread on this, in GD, I also quoted a newspaper article which more or less said that “Down Under” was the odd-man out tip wise, not the USA.
I don’t see what difference it would make. The server still has to politely & professionally wait on you. You’re just being mean, saying “I’m not going to tip.” I actually had a French woman say that to me. What was I supposed to do, spit in her food? Let her food get cold? Just not wait on her and her snooty little family? I can resent it, and private resolve to myself I hate the French, but what good’s that going to do me?
Did you perhaps not notice the words Is Not Expected, Is Not Widespread, Is Not Standard Practice, It Not A General Custom, et cetera? They were right at the start of each sentence.
They are saying that it’s not normal, but if you do feel like you really want to, go right ahead. And I’ll second that. Go ahead. Throw great wads of cash at whomsoever pleases you. It’s your money. Just don’t think that it’s normal.
That’d be three, since we’re including me. Quite a high Aussie representation, really.
Perhaps if it goes to the Pit we’ll see some more.
Y’know, I just went to that earlier thread to find out exactly where the Aussies said that tipping was the norm and discovered that the only person arguing for that case was… you. Which doesn’t make for compelling evidence.
You quoted Banquet Bear’s post in the earlier thread as support for your stance, but inexplicably neglected to provide a full quote.
(Bolding mine.)
Perhaps it is time to accept that maybe - just maybe - the folks living, working and eating in this country might actually know what they’re talking about? :smack:
Yes, the part YOU bolded but the site did not- the rest of the quotes continue on and says different than you do:*however it is acceptable to leave a small amount should you feel you have received exceptional service.“**but if you receive great service in a restaurant the recommended tip is 10 per cent of the bill.”**You may wish to add an extra 10% to the bill at a restaurant if you are impressed with the service but it is not mandatory. "
*
Umm, unless there is another, that’s two- you and MH.
Note that you failed to quote fully this site: http://www.walkabout.com.au/tips/Tipping.shtml
“Tipping
Tipping is not standard practice in Australia. You may wish to add an extra 10% to the bill at a restaurant if you are impressed with the service but it is not mandatory. Most Australians, however, when going to a good restaurant will expect to pay an additional 10%.” (italics mine), which is very poor form here to cut out the part of a quote which disgarees with your premise.
I can’t find the quote you gave from the NewSouth Wales cites, that link takes me to a Sydney site, and I can’t find any info on tipping, but it is a rather large site with lots of links.
So, from your very own site: "Most Australians, however, when going to a good restaurant will expect to pay an additional 10%MOST!
I disagree. While it would be exceptionally rude, the rudeness would mainly be the fact that this person knows tipping is the general custom, and that this person has already decided that they will not tip, regardless of service.
I, frankly, would prefer they DO tell me beforehand, so that I can prioritize my tables. I can still serve the table professionally, but I will not go the extra mile. And I will put my other tables–the ones likely to tip–first in my priority sequence. They will get their drinks first, and they will get free bread with their meal, and I will spend the extra time with them if needed.
I will still provide polite and professional service to the non-tipping table. I will ensure that they get their drink and food, but I will not bend over backwards for them as I would for a more courteous table. Much like how, when I would get very, very rude customers, they would immediately be bumped down to the bottom of my priority list. You’ll still get your drinks, but the courteous people will get theirs first. Then I will mix your martini.
If you want to pay the bare minimum, you will receive the bare minimum I can give you while still providing polite and professional service.
Also, quick note: A lot of restaurants DO have a “tip pool”, but most of the places I worked did it a lot sneakier than that. While it is nice for people to hand the tip directly to the server, many restaurants make it way worse.
At all the places I’ve worked, it’s gone like this:
You give a percentage of YOUR SALES to the house, who then give a portion to the kitchen, busboy, hostess, etc. So for example:
“Alex” sells $500 NET worth of food and drinks.
His tables tipped him, on average, 11%.
So Alex made $55.00 in tips.
Alex has to “tip out” 4% to the house.
4% is $20.
So Alex made $35.
So don’t fool yourself that you aren’t stiffing the waiter if you don’t tip. Don’t fool yourself that you’re paying the bare minimum. Because even if you don’t tip, your waiter has to tip out 4% of your meal and drink costs. Therefore:
Your meal was $50.
You did not tip.
Tip out is 4% of total SALES.
4% of your meal is $2.
Alex just PAID $2 OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET to serve you.
Just wanted to clear that up.
I should mention, I’m Australian, have lived in both NZ and Oz. I don’t tip in either country, and don’t know anyone who does, regardless of the quality of restaurant. I might make an exception for exceptional service, but I would second that it’s not common/expected.
Some restaurants in the past 3-4 years have started using new EFTPOS payment terminals which give an option for paying a tip - I have heard of a couple of places where if a line is not put through this, the restaurant has added their own 10% charge after the receipt has been signed, without the diner’s permission. Here this is not allowed and it’s been publicised as something to watch out for. I think the consensus is that restaurants here are trying this on, as the tips arn’t required for a living wage as in the US, and are just trying to ride on the wave of people who get used to tipping overseas.
Do NOT, fertheluvofgawd, “stiff” your waitstaff. If the service is below average, maybe leave only 10%. But if the service is so bad you are seriously considering no tip at all, then, after you get your check, go speak to the Manager. Explain the circumstances. Don’t get angry.
If the food was crap/cold but the service was good, then also do not take it out on the waitstaff, please speak to the manager.
Last time I got real bad service, I did this- the manager was well aware of the problems with that waiter, and comped my entire bill.
Last time my food was sub-standard, I got a cert for my need meal free, and the Manager comped dessert and drinks for the current meal. I left a rather generous tip.
I’m pretty demanding when it comes to tips. I tip the bare minimum if the waiter/waitress simply goes through the motions. For bad service I have no qualms about tipping badly, and/or even calling the manager it the service is really really bad.
I also tip silly well for good service - and will always let a manager know if someone’s really done a great job.
I go to the same places quite a bit, and I’m consistent - even at places were the service at first wasn’t very good, I now get good service because the staff know I’m not shy about rewarding good work.
Yep, this was my thought. I strongly suspect most of the people who express strongly held principles regarding not tipping–well, they would not take those principles so far as to actually let the server know ahead of time. Just my opinion, of course, but in all my wife’s years of waitressing, she never had a single person tell her upfront that he was philosophically opposed to tipping. Amazing, eh?
IMO, this says something about all this huffing and puffing over what’s “right.” Seems like so much bullshit, bullshit that can be reduced to, “I’d like to receive good service, but would just as soon not pay for it, thanks very much.”
As I said earlier, I usually tip 15% give or take a couple percentage. And I consider this a personal choice and not an obligation. Frankly, many other people tip this same amount, which is reasonable. A few tip more (I tip more if the service is excellent, or if I dine at a restaurant where I know the staff and they help me get a table on a busy night, etc.), many tip less. And this jibes with my personal experience of working in restaurants.
I do not expect to be loved for giving my opinion or rationale for what I do. I do not care if you agree or not. Guinastasia did say people who cannot affford to tip should not go out to eat – and some people would agree with this. Scottandrsn did imply that by not going to places he could not afford to tip, even when lacking toilet paper, he was setting a noble example for humanity by doing the right thing. And most wait staff would probably prefer that their customers have reasonable access to toilet paper. I have heard these arguments before, but disagree with the argument – I still see tips as a discretionary thing despite the fact I do it.
As for leaving no tip and telling the waiter this in advance – well, I usually do tip 15% for average service. If I could tip nothing and receive reasonable service, by telling the waiter in advance, I probably would not do this. I’d have no problem telling the waiter my plans, in the same way I have no qualms about not leaving a tip if the service is remarkably bad. But I have no objections to paying for professional service, and I do have sympathy for those who depend on tips and who work hard for low wages. It’s just that 15%, to me, seems a reasonable amount, based on social norms and my experiences. Most people I hang with also tip around 15%, more for extra work or bigger groups. In real life, I’m not dogmatic about 15%. Was this thread started to convince cheap tippers (include me if you wish) that tipping 20% is mandatory in all circumstances? Sorry. I still consider 15% a reasonable (not generous) tip, and consider tipping to be a discretionary action. Find this odious? My apologies, I’m sure.
Gosh. This thread has warmed up a bit since I have been away. It seems to be a sensitive subject for some. But as someone else said “When in Rome …”.
As far as all those posts provided as evidence about tipping in Australia, I am not aware of any tipping custom here and I eat out at good restaurants frequently. I have asked friends - no-one else tips. I’m sure these sites are written for the tourists. Not sure about the newspaper article though. Maybe I just hang out with tight-arses.
Sorry mate, I was just stirring. Of course you tip, you stated so in your post - I should have inserted some wry emoticon in there.
A question about tipping based on the level of service.
I can understand tipping for a good quality meal at a restaurant; though shouldn’t this tip go to the chef, rather than the waiter. All the waiter does is take your order and carry out the meal. The chef is the person who is able to improve the quality. Does most of the tip end up going to the chef? …or is is more like: “I like the way the waiter placed my food on the table - that deserves a good tip”.
And how does it work in a bar? What differentiates good service from bad in a bar?
“My word that IS a well poured beer, here - have a $2 tip.”
I’d agree with you, antechinus. One never really knows what is going to happen to the tip… whether the waitress keeps it all, whether it goes to the chef, whether the dishwasher gets one percent of the pool, or whether scubasteve’s employer absconds the whole lot. I can understand that a few extra dollars can mean an awful lot if you are just getting by. That doesn’t mean the money goes where you would like. I would really hope it went to the person being screwed out of a reasonable wage by the promise of tips. But I don’t like the system of tips. I think you should be paid reasonably for doing a good job and not have to depend on the kindness of strangers.
It depends on the restaurant, Antechinus, but I’ll try to answer as best as I can.
In general, the places I’ve worked here in Canada offer much higher salaries, or at least higher wages/hr, to the chef and kitchen staff, than are offered to the servers, which is one of the reasons they do not get 100% of the tip.
A percentage of the SALES go to the kitchen; not the tip. As I tried to lay out before: servers give a “tip-out” to the kitchen. “Tip-out” has nothing to do with how much the server is tipped on the meal. Thus, if it’s a $50 meal, the server would be required to tip out, say, 4% of that $50 meal to the kitchen ($2). The server would be required to do this even if the kitchen messed up and sent out a poor meal. And often, if the meal is poor, the server gets blamed. If the server gets blamed, they don’t get tipped as much. So if the customer, after complaining about a meal the kitchen screwed up, decides not to tip the server, the server still has to give a tip-out to the kitchen.
I’ve spoken to many of the kitchen workers I’ve worked with in the past, and they work really, really hard. But nine times out of then, they will say they would never want to work as a server, because they’d HATE to deal with the people. They make your food and they send it out, but your SERVER does the following:
they may seat you, if there is no hostess
they bring you your waters
they take your drink order (and make your drink, if there is no bartender)
they bring you your drink/open and pour your wine/etc
they take your food order, complete with any and all modifications, diet restrictions, allergy warnings, etc
they ring it in and interact with the kitchen
they bring you your free bread, if applicable
they bring you your appetizer, and ensure that your main course is fired up when you are nearly done your first course
they ensure your drink is replenished if needed
they ensure the quality of your drink/meal by checking with you
etc, etc, etc. Not to mention, they clean up your mess when you leave, they scrape off your plates and fish the lime out of your glass and clean up after your children and refill your free water and bread if you ask, they smile even if you’re rude to them, they bring you 45 napkins if you ask, they mop up your spill if you’re sloppy, they do all stocking of the front-of-house including the bar, they do all side duties from filling pepper mills to making sure your salad dressing is available to ordering inventory, and trust me, they often do the sweeping, mopping, and bathroom cleaning (complete with puke and diahhrea stains, if someone has blessed the bathroom with these things) after you leave.
I did all these things. (including the puke and diahhrea, fishing of gum out of the urinals, scrubbing of the toilet, etc etc).
So trust me. Your server does NOT just sashay the food over to your table. There’s a lot more to it than that, though perhaps much of it you don’t see or notice, because you are the one sitting down and enjoying a meal. Like most businesses, there are lots of duties that servers have that are perhaps not recognized by the general public. It’s just a part of the job, and generally, that’s how we “earn” our tips. By ensuring you’re happy as a customer, even if you don’t realize that you’re sitting in a clean, stocked restaurant because I’m server, janitor and stockperson, just to mention a few.
Good menu advice- “The halibuts off tonite, dude”.
Free and fast re-fills.
Getting the order right, like remembering I asked for a lime wedge in my soda and xtra dressing on the side.
If the food is slow or poor, checking with the manager to see what they can do for you. “Sorry about the back up in the kitchen, I just checked with the Manager and he offers you a comp dessert.”
