Are you motivated by power and wealth?

[ThelmaLou]

@Wakinyan

I’m sorry but also genuinly curious, in what way are these well known facts an “excellent observation”?

PS. Not questioning the wisdom of the machine elf.

A thing can be well-known and still be an excellent observation. “Excellent” =/= “Brand new”

Having said that, what I meant was that in the context of the other replies in this thread (mostly, “I don’t care about a lot of money; I just want enough not to have to worry about money.”) this was a slightly different wrinkle, namely, that you might want to use any stray billions that you happen to acquire accidentally or intentionally to do good works, not just to puff yourself up.

Does that answer your question?

[thirdname]

@Shagnasty

I have never been interested in “power” at all and I think most people that crave it don’t deserve it. I like respect and autonomy a whole lot more. Money is good and I have a decent amount but I have no desire to be a billionaire. That would be a huge hassle on its own.

Fame has no appeal and I actively avoid excess attention. I have friends and family members including a parent that chase fame and it looks exhausting even if you get it.

No thanks, I just want to retire early in a semi-secluded paradise with a rotating stable of models to hang out with when my family isn’t around. I like being a very competent individual contributor at work but I am fundamentally lazy and have turned down promotions just because I knew it would screw up my lifestyle. I am happy to let someone else handle all the paperwork.

You’re missing the point. The money, power or fame are how you get the stable of models. Otherwise, why would they be there with you when you’re at retirement age? What is your plan?

(Not to mention that semi-secluded paradises tend to be expensive.)

[kaylasdad99]

I’ve been given to understand that with great power comes great responsibility.

Great responsibility doesn’t appeal to me that much. Seems like a lot of work.

[Isamu]

@Machine_Elf

Sculley did indeed leave Pepsi to join Apple, so it would seem that he too was motivated by something more than just wealth.

What was his total package at Pepsi compared with at Apple?

[pullin]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer, Yes, but not the way most people think of it.
I want wealth and the power over my life that comes with it. Not power to control and lord over others, but power to protect myself and family from political and economic winds. Money can be a buffer, a shield, a weapon, and eventually a servant. And for most of us, it can be accumulated only by living frugally. Money you haven’t spent becomes wealth. And if you don’t spend it for a long enough time, it will become power.

-When the economy nosedives and jobs evaporate, it is the power to continue with no worries. During the “great” '08 recession, we lost one job and roughly half our income. If you were reading my posts during that time, you didn’t see it mentioned. It wasn’t that worrisome.

-When a career dead-ends and a reboot is needed, it is the power to take a 50% pay cut and start over, with few negative effects.

-When a re-org lands you in a toxic and abusive workplace, it is the power to walk away. And I have (midlevel engineering position, Fortune 500 company, toxic manager, I resigned the first month).

-When a landlord decides to intimidate and bully, it is the power to answer with attorneys and watch him scurry back beneath his rock. (Happened more than once during our moving years. Strutting little Napoleons assumed we were poor like the other tenants. Much hilarity ensued. I’ll post the stories sometime).

-When the nation is frantically awake, staring numbly at election returns and anxiously worried over jobs, taxes, and healthcare, it is the power to say “meh” and go to sleep, confident we’ll handle whichever wins, and we’ll find out at breakfast (We didn’t know who won until the next morning - I admit being surprised though).

So to ThelmaLou; Absolutely Yes. Even in the early part of our marriage we were motivated by wealth. Having no other path to it, we made a conscious decision to live in near monk-like frugality for the first decade. And in the following 3 decades the results have allowed us to live almost stress free.

Wealth gives you the power to sleep soundly at night.

[msmith537]

@Machine_Elf

Steve Jobs died an obscenely wealthy man ($10B), but it’s fair to argue that the wealth he accumulated wasn’t the thing (or at least not the only thing) that made him get up in the morning. I recall this quote from him in 1983, when he was trying to recruit the then-president of Pepsi:

Sculley did indeed leave Pepsi to join Apple, so it would seem that he too was motivated by something more than just wealth.

Interestingly, there’s no indication that Jobs engaged in any significant philanthropy, certainly nothing on the scale of Bill Gates.

I think it’s disingenuous when tech billionaires act like they aren’t motivated at all by money. But certainly a desire to change the world is why they chose to get rich in tech and not Wall Street.
“I don’t know about you people, but I don’t wanna live in a world where someone else makes the world a better place better than we do.”
-Gavin Belson

[Ulfreida]

@Moriarty

I think it’s easy to dismiss “money” and “power” when you’ve never had it, but I bet (not personally being fabulously rich or famous), it can be intoxicating. Thus, the fear of losing the money and power you have becomes a great motivator.

I mean, for the plebes, we are used to things like waiting in line, or taking turns, or having to follow the rules. But imagine that you start to spend time knowing that you are always accommodated when you show up; that nobody ever complains if you are late; that people work furiously to make sure your needs are met; that you are always the exception to the rule, whatever rule that may be; that you are given and shown the best at all times.

What, then, at the prospect of not having that anymore? It’d be downright depressing to go from knowing that you can walk into any restaurant and be seated immediately to calling up for reservations and be told that they are booked solid for two weeks, and there’s nothing they can do for you. What do you mean, I can’t walk into Tiffany’s and borrower a $30,000 necklace for a night on the town? What do you mean, the doorman wants to see ID? What do you mean, I have to wait for the flight to arrive? What do you mean, I have to be charming to get people to listen to me? I think the need to maintain the lifestyle is all the motivation some people need.

This reminds me of what happens when extremely attractive people, especially but not only women, lose their looks and have to act like the rest of us to get what they need. Rarely a pleasant sight except for the schadenfreude.

[Clothahump]

@ThelmaLou

Presumably, many of our politicians are motivated by the elusive drivers of wealth and power. Are you like that? Do you long to have millions/billions of dollars in the bank and loyal minions who live only to take orders from you?

I could care less about the minions. But it would sure be nice to have a big chunk of loot in the bank.

[MandaJo]

I want to matter, to make important decisions. I like to creatively solve problems, and you can’t do that if you don’t have some degree of power. I like having people respect me as an expert in my (admittedly narrow) field. I don’t really want to manage adults, because that sucks, but I also wouldn’t leave my job for a 40-hr a week job where I made the same money but didn’t get to be a wise old woman whose words must be heeded.

The problem, of course, is that if what you do really matters, of course you have to do it all the time.

[Misnomer]

@ThelmaLou

Or maybe you like being in charge of a well-run team that functions efficiently and supports the members, and that when a job is well-done, everyone shares the credit, but you know it was your leadership that made it happen the way it did?

This, for me. I’m a proposal manager for a large federal contractor. If anyone doesn’t know what a proposal is, imagine a project manager who starts a new project – with a new team and new requirements – every 30-45 days. There is no way I could be successful without teams of smart people who know what they’re doing, but there’s no way the teams could be successful without good leadership. There is a fair amount of stress, and long hours, but on the whole I enjoy my work.

I also enjoy my salary. I don’t think I’d say that I’m motivated by money, but I’m naturally ambitious and money tends to go along with that. My earning potential as a proposal manager is pretty good, especially if I keep getting better at it/as I gain experience. In the past two years I’ve finally developed some financial stability and breathing room, and I am in no hurry to give that up. The aforementioned stress and long hours do sometimes make me wonder if I could be happy doing a different job for less money, but I’m pretty sure my ambition would eventually wind up getting the better of me.

I think a form of ambition is what’s behind the 74-year-old billionaire who still works. People who are very successful are often very motivated and driven to accomplish things – it’s rarely about hitting a certain dollar amount and then retiring.

[HoneyBadgerDC]

@Misnomer

This, for me. I’m a proposal manager for a large federal contractor. If anyone doesn’t know what a proposal is, imagine a project manager who starts a new project – with a new team and new requirements – every 30-45 days. There is no way I could be successful without teams of smart people who know what they’re doing, but there’s no way the teams could be successful without good leadership. There is a fair amount of stress, and long hours, but on the whole I enjoy my work.

I also enjoy my salary. I don’t think I’d say that I’m motivated by money, but I’m naturally ambitious and money tends to go along with that. My earning potential as a proposal manager is pretty good, especially if I keep getting better at it/as I gain experience. In the past two years I’ve finally developed some financial stability and breathing room, and I am in no hurry to give that up. The aforementioned stress and long hours do sometimes make me wonder if I could be happy doing a different job for less money, but I’m pretty sure my ambition would eventually wind up getting the better of me.

I think a form of ambition is what’s behind the 74-year-old billionaire who still works. People who are very successful are often very motivated and driven to accomplish things – it’s rarely about hitting a certain dollar amount and then retiring.

I enjoyed your post and it made me realize something I had never actually pin pointed before. My best successes were always with teams I had to throw together rather quickly on large odd ball jobs I had a poor understanding of. If for some reason I had to continue working with that same team it would usually start to break down and lack the energy it had when freshly assembled. I often had a good laugh at myself when clients would call fully confident I could get the job done knowing full well I would be flying on a wing and a prayer. It always got done on time and my clients were always happy and I was always surprised.

[Una_Persson]

Wealth is safety and access. I have a very real fear of potentially losing my career over being a very visible “out and proud” transgender person. Every dollar I gain and throw into savings and investments means I’m a little less fearful of being jobless, out of money, out of health care, out of hope.

For a while things were looking really good, then Fierra developed cancer this year, and everything has been a world of shit. So on top of the fear of my losing my job (which honestly, we would have been fine on one income), I may be the only breadwinner soon. So if I fail, I sink two people. So I work harder than ever, getting paid for 4 jobs, just to try to increase the safety margin - via wealth. I’m tired all the time, and sick as well, but it’s working. Shrug.

When we reach a certain target point I’ll quit most of my jobs and focus on just working to help others.

[Shagnasty]

@thirdname

You’re missing the point. The money, power or fame are how you get the stable of models. Otherwise, why would they be there with you when you’re at retirement age? What is your plan?

(Not to mention that semi-secluded paradises tend to be expensive.)

I have plenty of money and lots of wealth already with much more to come as well as a respectable professional job with some degree of power and autonomy. What I meant was that I don’t want to be a manager for a large group of people let alone a politician. I can successfully manage very small groups of people quite well as has been proven many times but I am not a true leader or a follower. I really just want to be free to do what I think is right.

However, power alone can be toxic and I don’t care anything about it. I really just want money and personal respect on a quiet scale. We are dealing with a Napoleon type at work right now that got promoted well beyond his capabilities. He proudly announces that he wants to be CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world someday even though he can’t even do his current job very well. He has power but extremely little respect (I am sure you can think of similar examples).

As to the secluded paradise with models, I already have one picked out and it costs less than living in the U.S. I just have to work out the details. I still have a few years to go but I still won’t be that old.

[ThelmaLou]

@Shagnasty

…We are dealing with a Napoleon type at work right now that got promoted well beyond his capabilities. He proudly announces that he wants to be CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world someday even though he can’t even do his current job very well. He has power but extremely little respect (I am sure you can think of similar examples)…

<Puts on Thinking Cap and thinks really, really hard>

[Shagnasty]

Power is circular too or at least it should be. I don’t manage anyone at the moment but I have direct control over 200 very important employees when the situation demands it. What I say goes with no deviation although helpful ideas are welcome.

However, that is not self-serving. I am there to help them, the business and the customers and I have already thought out plans for most contingency scenarios. That is the way that power should work. It shouldn’t be an ego trip. It should be a voluntary way for people to help others. I have worked with great leaders and terrible micro-managers. There is a huge difference and the former are much more valuable.

[Machine_Elf]

@Una_Persson

Wealth is safety and access. I have a very real fear of potentially losing my career over being a very visible “out and proud” transgender person. Every dollar I gain and throw into savings and investments means I’m a little less fearful of being jobless, out of money, out of health care, out of hope.

Long-term financial security is a goal that pretty much anybody can understand, but I think the OP was asking about whether people are motivated by accumulating wealth they know they will never find a use for:

@ThelmaLou

Are you working hard and longing to have lots of money in the bank? Not just enough to feel secure and fairly comfortable, but a whole lot more (possibly billions) than you will ever need?

If I have a couple million dollars, I could be financial secure for the rest of my life even if my job went away. If I have twice that, I can live very comfortably for the rest of my life. So I’m motivated to pursue the “live very comfortably” scenario (mostly by not immediately spending the savings my wife and I have accumulated so far in our lives).

Imagine instead that I have a net worth of one billion dollars. I can live like a king, and somebody with twice that net worth live won’t live any more lavishly. So what’s the point of pursuing that second billion? To me, very little. To some others, it’s a matter of keeping score, some sort of measurement of their accomplishments, i.e. “my net worth is $2B, so I’m twice as successful as that guy that only made $1B.”

@Una_Persson

For a while things were looking really good, then Fierra developed cancer this year, and everything has been a world of shit.

Sorry to hear of this; hoping for a good outcome for both of you.

[Velocity]

@Machine_Elf

Imagine instead that I have a net worth of one billion dollars. I can live like a king, and somebody with twice that net worth live won’t live any more lavishly. So what’s the point of pursuing that second billion? To me, very little. To some others, it’s a matter of keeping score, some sort of measurement of their accomplishments, i.e. “my net worth is $2B, so I’m twice as successful as that guy that only made $1B.”

I can imagine a few (admittedly, only a few) situations in which having $2 billion is significantly more than having $1 billion.
$2 billion might let you acquire a major league professional sports team as an owner, if you wanted that; $1 billion might not. If you want to start a charity organization, having $2 billion to give away or pay non-profit salaries or buy goods for people is a big step above having “just” $1 billion. If you want to start a new business, same too; the startup funds. Political SuperPAC, film movies on your own budget, etc.

[Find_Friends]

@Machine_Elf

Some people really love what they do, and some people take great pride in their professional accomplishments. You mentioned that this hotel owner is a billionaire and owns many buildings in the area; I expect he takes pride in believing that his wealth and vision was instrumental in making it happen, and he also likely enjoys being an active participant in his hotel enterprise. If you are fortunate enough to have found something that brings you joy and fulfillment on a daily basis, it makes sense not to give it up just because you’re “old”.

Two other such people that come to mind are John Bogle (currently 88) and Warren Buffett (currently 87), both of whom are still active in their financial endeavors. For some of these sorts of guys it is about the accumulation of wealth and status for its own sake (see Trump and Shkreli for two prominent examples), but for some, the wealth piles up, and they go “huh, now what” - and the “what” ends up being charitable giving. People like Bogle, Buffett, and Bill/Melinda Gates have donated billions of dollars toward the public good. I imagine it feels pretty nice to be able to do that.

Excellent post!

[Pabitel]

Well, enough wealth to pay off the student loans in time to retire.

Power?
Power to do what?
I don’t think I have enough investment in anything to want enough power to affect it.
I want enough power to be left alone, I guess.

[Machine_Elf]

@Velocity

$2 billion might let you acquire a major league professional sports team as an owner, if you wanted that; $1 billion might not. If you want to start a charity organization, having $2 billion to give away or pay non-profit salaries or buy goods for people is a big step above having “just” $1 billion. If you want to start a new business, same too; the startup funds. Political SuperPAC, film movies on your own budget, etc.

In all of those cases, the wealth is a means to an end, a resource to achieve other goals. That’s different from what ThelmaLou was asking about, i.e. the accumulation of massive wealth as an end in itself.