Are you ready for $10/Gallon gas and long lines at the pump?

The BBQ Pit
121

There was an excellent PBS documentary about how Americans are cut off. Going back to the GI bill that put home ownership in the reach of many Americans, we built these suburbs, clustering all the houses together apart from everything else. We zoned businesses over here, schools apart from that. We ended up living life in huge triangles. Work here, live there, shop yet somewhere else. “White flight” hasn’t helped a bit. We have pretty much given up on sidewalks, barely know our neighbors, and so on.

Elsewhere in the world, people walk to work, stop at the bakery for a loaf of bread on the way home, and kids go to the neighborhood school. They see each other at the cafe, know who’s who.

When gas was cheap it was manageable economically, if not intelligent from a viewpoint of building a sense of community.

http://www.subdivided.net/media/

122

And employers will have to surrender the relativley low wages compared to what is required to live in the city. Many people don’t commute long distances for the “luxury” of country living; many put up with it just to afford a house. A country mortgage payment will scarcely cover a city rent, much less a city mortgage payment.

123

While we’re on the topic of economic realities that should be readily apparent but somehow are not, renting real estate should be more expensive than owning it, and if it isn’t, then either the real estate market is overbought, or the rest of the economy as a whole is undervalued.

Should dovetail nicely with the present predicament.

124

The thing of it is though, we don’t need oil for current lifestyle. Well we do for our current autos, but the thing of it is most organic compounds (plastics, coal, biomass, even sewage) can be converted to syngas. Syngas can be converted to synthetic fuel.

The process would certainly be profitable before gas hits $10 a gallon.

If the government had any sense it’d start a large scale national synthetic gas program, give vouchers to people who can’t afford to have their car retrofitted to run on syngas or a derivative, put an embargo on OPEC, and tell em thanks for playing, but fuck off.

125

Nice idea (Hell, great idea) but it would take more than a bit of lead time and capital that we need to fight The War Against Terror. I think we’d start lobbing nukes at sandy places before we would devote that kind of effort into doing something positive. We’re lazy that way.

126

Well I agree it prolly has a snowball’s chance, but if implemented it might scare up some cheaper oil trying to put the kybosh on it while it’s built.

We use the cheaper oil and continue building till we’re oil self sufficient. Then apply the embargo to make sure we stay that way.

127

I didn’t know it was quite complete yet. The plan is coming along much more quickly than I could have ever hoped!!

Putting my money will be quite difficult until I strong-arm Congress into eliminating all paper money and only minting spherical coins.

And–I never said we wouldn’t have to take a hit to our quality-of-life. Whether or not we will be living in similar conditions as our friends in Delhi and Mumbai remains to be seen.

It’s interesting–I had largely forgotten that this was in the Pit until I read your post.

I find you rather clown-like, and your contributions to this thread unsophisticated and dull.

128

But then you post a thoughtful post like #124 and make my assessment look slightly off. You seem to have undergone a change of tone overnight (my overnight).

I really shouldn’t say this in the Pit but, nice post.

129

Yup. Electric with gas as a way to charge the batteries like the Volt, and hopefully give extended range.

I live 25 miles from work. I bought this house for a number of reasons. #1 being that I could afford it. #2 being that I had a dog and will not keep a dog in a condo or apartment. I choose the job because I had been out of work for 6 months in Denver. I moved. I had always wanted to live in the mountains so it was a win win situation.

The County we work in has perhaps 25,000 residents. Town. A few towns. A similar 2 bed, 2 bath house in town would cost up about 4-5 times what my house is worth. Say 600-900g. More If I want any type of fenced yard (many subdivision don’t allow fences).

We have had over 23 feet of snow this year. And as you might guess, my Wife and I drive SUV’s. Large mid size for the snow, our dogs and our activities.

If we where to somehow sell our place, and move into ‘town’ we would still need a large mid sized SUV. The other car could be something like a small 4x4 wagon. And of course we would save on distance traveled. OK… I made my bed. I like my livestyle. And in a lot of ways it was chosen for me. I bought what I could afford.

This mess has been coming for a long time. I’m really not pissed off about gas prices. I am pissed off at the money and lives that have been lost in Iraq.

500 billion dollars. And counting.
150,000 lives lost. And counting.

Money that needed to be spent on our infrastructuer. Money that should have been used to support research for alternative energy for everyone.

Lives lost that could have been, or were our friends.

Stunning.

130

Jesus Christ what an outrage.

When are people here going to WAKE THE FUCK UP! We have an oil addiction. We need to be in Oilaholics Anonymous. We thought that it wouldn’t be a problem back when we started this little suburban experiment back after WWII, but now it has caught up with us, and nobody wants to say it out loud. We have to go cold turkey as quickly as we can.

It’s just a fucking outrage that people somehow think that we have a right to cheap oil. OPEC is doing nothing illegal. You know what OPEC is? OPEC is a smart organization that is the equivalent of a drug dealer. We all gotta have what they’re selling. Do you blame your drug dealer for your addiction to crack? No you don’t. But somehow driving an SUV 3 hours back and forth to work, became part of the “American Dream” in the past 15 years. When I was a child in the 80’s Moms drove station wagons, not Expeditions. Most people didn’t live in brand-new subdivisions.

We have to start investing in alternatives NOW. If we could spend what we spend on the military in one year, we’d have made so much progress already. We could invest in non-oil based technologies for our energy needs, and also be the world leader for our troubles!

But no, we’d rather sue OPEC, so they can give us marginally cheaper gas for the next two years. Never mind India and China who will be start to put a ridiculous amount of demand on the already precious supply. Why the hell is it that we have to act so childishly and believe that we Americans are “special” and that being “the greatest country on earth” means not having to obey the rules? Well I have new for everyone here, we are eventually going to have to play by the rules. Sooner rather than later. We’d best be prepared.

Secondly to rebut the idea that mass transit simply isn’t possible in the US, I’d like to remind you that it was once possible to take commuter rail from New York to Chicago at one point in time. A lot of our streetcar systems were replaced with buses. The good ole US of A has been around longer than the automobile. People still managed to get around. Did you not realize that people even commuted before cars? That’s one of the reasons why LA isn’t quite as sprawled as other cities like Phoenix. It was built around the streetcar.

The only things that aren’t sustainable are the areas that have sprung up since WWII. But that’s only because instead of investing in public transport infrastructure, we invested in roads and other car-related infrastructure. People talk about how public transportation isn’t economically feasible, but guess what, it’s not supposed to make money. It’s supposed to move people around to get the economy going. Infrastructure.

I’m so god damned tired of this recent American attitude that we’re so different that we are unable to do anything about our current situation. How the fuck do you think the pioneers felt? Where the hell did the old fashioned American can-do attitude go? What about our ancestors who lived through a depression and a world war? Do you think they’d sit back on their pasty, puffy white asses and make excuses while blaming others for their problems. No they wouldn’t.

This is the same fucking shit that happens any time someone suggests anything slightly inconveniencing. I read the other day that getting rid of the penny would help out with costs, but would be “politically unfeasible.” Are we so fucking pathetic and temperamental that we can’t be asked to part with a fucking piece of copper? What ever happened to the collective good?

As far as I’m concerned, we all deserve what’s coming to us, except for those of us like myself who understand the consequences of our actions now. Maybe after a period of economic hardship like our fathers and grandfathers went through we’ll understand what sacrifice really is. Then we won’t mind moving closer to town and taking the bus.

But hey, nevermind that! Let’s sue OPEC and when it doesn’t work, let’s go over there and fight with India and China for every last drop of oil until it’s all gone. We brought this situation upon ourselves. I can understand people not understanding the situation now, but after the first oil shock, I think we’ve had plenty of time to change our tune. Yet this “American Way of Life” that has been around for a mere fraction of our existence can’t be compromised.

There’s a growing number of people out there who are saying, “Hey, we need to get our shit together soon, or we’re going to be fucked.” And the rest are too fucking stupid to realize it.

What about our trade deficit? We consume 20 MILLION barrels of oil a day. That’s 900 some-odd BILLION dollars a year at current prices. Maybe our trade deficit wouldn’t be so bad if we didn’t have to send 900 billion dollars every year outside of our country just to keep our economy running. But we’re special…it won’t affect us… We’re acting like a petulant teenager over the fact that we can’t have our way anymore, and one day the chickens are going to come home to roost.

131

Thanks, well I’m just really mad about the current situation, and not quite sure who to be mad at. Congress for not thinking ahead and hedging our dependence with alternatives? The oil companies and auto makers for lobbying against higher MPG standards? The public for just accepting this and buying hummers? OPEC definitely ranks up there somewhere.

The worst part. I used to have a geo metro, but then it broke down and had a hole in the floor so I sold it a couple years ago for $300 :smack:

Sorry for being overly aggro, getting used to the style of the forum. I remember lurking before joining and few here were just wow.

132

Sorry about the acerbic post earlier, but I really was on a roll. I’d like to add that if this SynGas thing is truly feasible, then we should switch to it ASAP. We could gradually raise the gas tax on normal gas and subsidize the development of the new stuff until we make some progress with it.

Just so you guys know, I’m not against people living in the sticks. I grew up in the sticks and I understand what it’s like. I don’t expect these people to move to the city. But on the other hand, there are plenty of sustainable living situations that are lower density than Manhattan.

I bear absolutely zero ill will to OPEC. Even if OPEC said, “we’re cutting production just because we want to see you squirm.” We never had to put ourselves in this situation. We’ve had ample time to develop an alternative. They are simply doing what is in their national self-interest. We’ve fucked over many a nation when we’ve found it beneficial to us, so I’m not expecting many people to be moved by our crocodile tears.

133

Alright everybody, stand ready to calibrate your irony meters!

134

It’s not we as Americans who are at fault. It’s just that the “overnight” change that all of this is happening that makes it very hard for alot of people who are simply trying to get to work and earn a living.

135

You´re right, nobody, but nobody saw it coming that a non-renowable resource could run low sooner or later.

Besides which, my I point out that the current ballistic path of oil prices was started by the US invasion of Iraq? No?, well, I just did, I´m naughty like that.

Not at fault my ass. And I´m sorry for being so caustic but this whole business of batting innocent eyes and wonder why the bad, bad world plays mean rubs me the wrong way.

136

Uhhh… Buffalo has a subway and a very comprehensive bus system. Routing is a clusterfark beyond the city line, but service inside the city is very frequent, and within a short walking distance of most residents.

137

I stated facts. You quoted me out of context. Your solution is everyone moves to the city? Who grows the crops? Who farms the animals? Who gets wood for your paper products?

I think everyone starving to death would be a lowered quality of life. Don’t you?
Care to address my reasoning for why people live in the country that you cut out?
Besides do you really wanna see what comes of the urban thug/redneck cultural exchange?:stuck_out_tongue:

On second thought duct tape graphetti would be pretty cool.

138

Who´s talking about rural people?, the issues here have been the urban sprawl into far away suburbs and rural areas of people that work on the cities, moving en masse everyday wasting oodles of oil in the process.
Or else you may produce an example in this thread of someone pitting gas guzzling farm equipment.

139

I was in one of the posts you quoted me from.

140

The countryside won’t be abandoned. But everyone will wind up travelling less. That means if you like rural life you’ll make fewer trips to the city. Commuting to a daily job in the city may not be feasible anymore. If you like urban life you’ll probably need to make do with more cramped living conditions and reduced opportunities for home ownership.

American suburban sprawl depends on cheap oil. If cheap oil goes away for good, living patterns will have to change.