Technically, it’s supposed to be down to “business casual” now, but I’m continuing to do my part in trying to beat it into submission. No one has called me on my black jeans and t-shirts in years. Way back when I started, we were required to wear neckties, and nearly all of us resented the hell out of it. Several of us had hooks in our cubes that we hung the ties on, pre-knotted, and only put them on if we had to go meet one of the more obnoxious managers.
My job is not–and seldom has been–customer facing. I don’t want a customer-facing position. I sit at a computer, work my arcane magic, and occasionally talk on the phone. Even my manager seldom sees me, and she sits less than 10 feet away. I am an office ninja. As long as I refrain from wearing anything that offends or distracts the handful of people that do see me, what does it matter?
There are some people here who like to dress on the low end of business casual; khakis, long sleeve button up shirt and loafers but no tie. There are enough of them that they don’t stand out. I wonder what would happen if someone showed up in a tie and sport coat every day. They’d probably feel pressure the other way.
We can’t wear blue jeans (other colored jeans are fine), overly revealing tops, or open-toed shoes (danger of toe injuries). Most of us look put together, but if you work with low-functioning autistic kids, something too nice may get stained or torn, so there’s a balance.
I don’t personally care about my employer-mandated uniform. There’s a reason we have a dress code, it’s a mandatory part of employment, and I truly don’t care. If anything, it simplifies my life because I know what I will be wearing every day of the week.
I absolutely believe in the rule that you should “Dress for the job you want.” On the rare occasions when we have a “casual day,” I make sure I am dressed better than everyone in the room. We had a company party one time, and I wore a button-up long sleeve shirt, slacks, and nice shoes. My peers were wearing khaki shorts and faded t-shirts. If my peers are wearing collared shirts, I wear a tie and jacket.
If your business suit makes an employee “uncomfortable,” piss on him (especially if he is a subordinate). Your job is to present a serious and professional appearance. If you dress with dignity, people will treat you with dignity. If he looks like a slob, people will treat him like a slob. That is his decision and his problem.
I posted about a similar incident here once, when I had to send the receptionist home because she was dressed for the club rather than the office. Aroused some ire hereabouts.
Somehow our sales have increased six fold over the last seven years and none of our competitors can touch us. We sell commercial products in dozens of industries and to the US and many other governments. How on Earth is this possible given the way that we dress? It makes no sense.
Actually, it’s easy. We’re not a bunch of stuffed suits. We’re staffed with incredibly smart and competent people many of whom (not me) are world renowned in their fields. We are respected for our results, not how we dress. No one cares how we dress because our products kick ass over everyone else’s.
Thankfully, your way is dying. Soon people will no more wear suits to work then dress up in white tie for dinner like on Downton Abbey.
Back when I started my pro career, back in the mid 90’s I wore shirt and tie to my small office. After about a year I was kicking ass in the job. I decided that I wasn’t gonna wear a tie anymore. Nobody said anything about if and pretty soon nobody was wearing a tie any longer. I doubt if I could pull that know, but young, stupid and succeeding at a difficult job it seemed to be OK.
I just noted elsewhere at this site that I used to work at a garage, a service station. I now work in a law office. When I first changed fields, i would stop by my friends who have ‘blue-collar’ jobs and they would have a good laugh over the “office boy” and aask didn’t I hate wearing a tie.
I worked at a job where I wore the same two oil, gas and sweat drenched uniforms 12 hours a day and 9 hours on Saturday for 15 years. I loved being clean and looking nice.
I worked at IRS for a while (while still working as a mechanic part time). IRS didn’t have a dress code, but as I was trying to break into ‘white collar’, I wore a dress shirt and tie 4 days a week. Fridays were hawaiin shirt Fridays for me. I worked IRS for 18 months. Until the end, people seeing me in shirt and tie would aask “Don’t you always wear a Hawaiin shirt?”
Supposed to be business casual. I have been able to get away with a lot less. Now I go in so rarely I try to meet the standard just to avoid making waves. Way back when I had to wear a tie and suit up on some occasions, and it was annoying to me then. I wouldn’t be interested in a job with that requirement any more.
This always goes to the same place. Always. Apparently in some people’s minds - and I am looking directly at you, solosam: there is only two ways to dress, uber-professional, or a slob.
And then we fight for five pages and nothing gets resolved. Let me make this perfectly clear: those of us who are against strict, formal dress codes, most of us, anyway, aren’t advocating to look like slobs.
Strict, formal dress for me would be a business skirt or dress pants, with a jacket, and probably pantyhose. Silk blouse or some such. Heels.
Business casual is a pair of nice slacks with a comfortable, attractive blouse, which doesn’t show too much, and my choice of women’s shoes, not flip-flops, but actual shoes. Neat, clean, and tidy - not a “slob” but not dressed to the nines either.
Ok, carry on with the excluded middle, as is customary.
I’d ask what sort industry you’re in, but since I have no intention of answering the question if posed to me, it doesn’t seem fair.
About your forecast of the suit’s obsolescence, though: what about people who actually like them? Mika’s already commented that she liked the way men look in them, and I am not alone in preferring the way they feel. Among the eleventy-jillion things I’ve sold is men’s suits (for a few months in college), and I firmly believe that men who find shirts & ties unduly constrictive are simply wearing the wrong size shirt. This is particularly true of guys my own age, who mistakenly assume that, just because they wore a size 16 collar and 30 sleeve in high school, the same is true a quarter of a century later.
I don’t think my employees should be required to wear suits every day. Once my promotion is effective, I’ll tell the managers under me that their teams won’t have to dress up when I’m visiting unless they feel like it. But costuming and culture are both major factors in the way people dress. In this industry, it’s customary for corporate field sales people to dress a certain way; the clients expect it. If an inside sales type (my crew) wants to stay in that job indefinitely, or is angling for a promotion in customer service, training, operations, or whatnot, that’s fine. If they’re angling for a field sales job, or a higher rung in the IS organization, then they’d best dress the part.
Mika, the way you dress would be fine at my office, and if you were in field sales, you’d be a damn fool to wear high heels most of the time; you’d spend too much of your day walking. The hardest part of a field sales rep’s wardrobe to manage is to find shoes that look businesslike and are yet comfortable. Whenever I found such shoes, I’d buy two or three pairs.
Oh, I do hope suits don’t go away permanently. There is a gentleman on these boards who still not only wears suits but wears vests and cummerbunds and waistcoats and watches on a fob! It’s very elegant and attractive. And sportscoats are a nice medium.
You didn’t say a thing about competence. You only seemed concerned about appearance in that post and said that one would be treated specifically based on how they dressed.
OK, let’s say that there was some weird situation where two people are exactly the same in every way but one dressed nicer. I dress up a notch or two for job interviews so you’d never know. Do you really consider clean t-shirts and blue jeans without holes in them dressing like a slob? Really?
I’m pretty sure that you and I are in different fields but at most engineering companies, a member of the technical staff who showed up in an expensive suit would look silly. No one would tell them to dress any differently but it would be bizarre.
Business casual where I work, and I don’t care for it all. I’m a jeans and T-shirt kkind of guy. I have been thinking about getting some ties to wear though, just for the reason you mentioned in the o.p.
This is another thing, too - dress to your environment. If I showed up in something really fancy someday and didn’t have a meeting with a client, people would assume I was going to an interview.
Actually that’s an argument for dressing nicely every day. That is, if you always dress as if you’re going for an interview, then on the days you actually ARE going for an interview, no one will notice.
I am a senior engineer at a high tech manufacturing and design corporation. I work for a manager who works for a director who works for a VP who works for a GM. All of them dress casually. I never wear shorts or sandals to work but the GM does.
I have no interest in telling people who want to dress up to change. When I started my professional career in the early 90’s, some of the older guys wore ties in the office and they literally felt uncomfortable at work without one. It was a business casual place with casual Fridays when I first started working there but most of the old guard had retired after a few years and we went to total casual.
