Never mind… already cited.
Hell no I’m not willing to die for the economy. I’m happy to let Glenn Beck and his ilk do their part.
Here is a chart of deaths per 1,000 over time. The “mild” third wave was only 12 or so per thousand. Today a similarly “mild” flu would result in over 3 million deaths. The lower rate was likely due to immunity from that part of the population which caught the flu on the second wave and survived.
A 20% chance of each of you dying means that there is over a 1 in 3 chance of at least one of you dying. You really would accept a 1 in 3 chance of your daughter being an orphan to maybe keep her from higher inflation in the future? Would you play Russian Roulette with those odds for a more immediate return? I doubt it.
I wonder how many people would have to take this devil’s bargain for it to be worth anything. Say 1% took it. That’s not going to be enough customers to keep any restaurants open. When I was working, if 1% of our staff came in they might as well not, since nothing would get done.
That’s certainly true for factories. Put 1% of the people on the assembly line and see how far you get.
10% would be no better. 50%? Maybe. I think you’d need well over that.
And of course, would you want to be the first? You’d be risking your life for almost no benefit.
Remember, the airlines are cutting domestic flights not because of government dictates, but because no one is flying.
Would this mean that companies would be able to pressure their employees to sign the pledge to go back to work?
Basically, it would people at risk without helping the economy at all.
Happy to be of service!
Can I have some money? I’m serious. I lost my job to this. I’m not even sick. They just cut staff. I have $0 income right now, and I have four mouths to feed. I’m broke. If you’re really willing to cough up the pub money, would you paypal me your $20?
It would be good to see that chart geographically. If the lower numbers were due to immunity, then the areas that suffered through the 2nd wave were probably not nearly as badly hit on the 3rd wave and, in effect, only had to do deal with one wave. Each wave lasted 3 months, so from a specific location perspective, it lasted 3 months. But I don’t know. I’m curious if that is how it worked out. If there id data like that which breaks it out for say, Western Europe, Australia and North America it would be really interesting.
I wondered about something. If 40,000 people die because of unemployment, when unemployment goes up so will the number who die.
Unemployment was hovering around 4% for quite a while, so I’ll assume that 40,000 is related to that rate.
If we hit a recession, or worse, where the unemployment rate rises to 20%, that would indicate a 5x increase in the number of deaths due to uninsured, assuming that relationship is linear. It very well might not be.
But maybe the death rate isn’t linear. Maybe it only increases by a factor of 0.7 or something. A 14% unemployment rate (3.5x) would mean an ~2.5x increase in the death rate. So instead of 40,000/year dying it would be 100,000. It doesn’t include bankruptcies and other lives crushed because of lack of insurance.
So just looking at a sort of order of magnitude of all this, I don’t think the death rate due to unemployment is as easily dismissed as it first appeared. It still doesn’t justify letting so many suffer and die because of this disease, but the secondary effects aren’t as negligible as I first thought by your well researched post.
To the original post:
What a dumb-ass question. It’s the kind of thing I would expect from conservatives if Hillary was president. Dopers (rightfully) criticized conservatives for the Obamacare “death camps” and yet this thread proves that they can do the same stupid shit. Let’s take out all nuance, re-frame it in the worst possible interpretation, and then pretend it’s the common outcome.
If Hillary was president the question would look like this on the Dope: Would you be willing to risk a small chance of illness or even death to prevent the economy from going into the dumper, which would cause hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of people to lose their jobs and make their families destitute?
We can have a rational discussion on what we’re willing to risk, economically or human, during this crisis. This thread is not it. The problem is that under all of these discussions is the assumption that if the economy is doing poorly then Trump loses in November. This makes it too easy for Dopers to dismiss the pain that would result from a bad economy.
And now I see your chart is for the UK, which answers that question.
Thanks!
If I was a Republican and didn’t truly believe in my heart of hearts that all the races were equal I would really really love the idea of being able to condemn people to death for their perceived value to the economy. I feel like there was a guy back in the day who did something similar but I can’t remember his name…
The Wiki article which included the chart is pretty good. The focus did move around. However I’m not sure how relevant that is for today, since it was much harder to travel long distances, and there was the impact of the war which forced many potential victims to be close together in army camps.
I looked for deaths over time, since that is an interesting statistic, but the UK chart is the only thing I found. I’m sure the third peak has something to do with soldiers coming back from France.
If Hillary were president she would not be calling on things being back to normal so that the churches can be filled with possibly infectious people for Easter. If Hillary were president she’d be listening to the medical people, not touting unproven remedies. If Hillary were president she would be using her powers to get masks and other equipment manufactured, not holding back for the sake of the free market.
The way to ease the pain is stimulus, like enhanced unemployment, which finally got passed in the Senate. It is not to say that hey, millions have died, but at least the bars are open.
If you are in a state with legal medical marijuana, cannabis can really help with anxiety. That’s what is keeping me going.
But I’m normally pessimistic. I’ve kept a supply of “medicine” on hand for the past 30 or so years, replacing it when it expires. If I can get to my medicine cabinet when the need arises, I can go peacefully.
Agreed. Thanks for doing that research.
I’m a locomotive engineer for a major freight railroad in the N.E., an essential employee. I did go to work earlier this week, but saw that they were not taking this seriously at all. They just had a couple of extra soap dispensers in the crew offices, that’s it. Other wise its just business as usual. We are still doing crew swaps without the engines being cleaned, and we are still going to the hotel at the end of the trip. A train coming from Chicago could of had 4 different crews on it before I board, and the risk at the hotels is obvious.
If they can’t be bothered to come up with new protocols to minimize my chances of getting infected, then I see no need to expose myself, to that essential employee or not.
I’m not willing to die for the economy, I’m staying home for now.
Thank you. I mean that sincerely – thank you for putting the health and safety of yourself and your fellow americans ahead of a couple extra days of work.
Why not? He is in the target age range. Overweight, too.