RobertTB, in light of the research DDG and others have done, you need to r-e-a-d t-h-e o-t-h-e-r p-o-s-t-s. The question is about vigilantism, not much on what private owners are doing.
lel I’ve strung lots of barbed wire on ranches in Oregon. It was never strung to keep anyone out. It was strung to keep cattle in.
Yes, that’s the main purpose, but if someone strings barbed wire fencing around their land to keep cattle in, wouldn’t there be an implication that people should stay out? If I want people trespassing on my land, I’m going to put up welcome signs, not barbed wire fences.
lel, and RobertTB please stop highjacking the thread with scenarios which have nothing to do with the OP. Will you freaking read the OP. We’re on page five for goodness sake. If you want to discuss other scenarios open another freaking thread. You are too freaking lazy to read the op? ok, here it is:
Do you freaking get it now? Did you read the link supplied?
We are not discussing the rigts of people to defend themselves ok? Do you get that? Do you comprehend? Think about it. Please. We are discussing something very concrete and your scenarios do not fit into that. Your scenarios are straw men. OK? You have been told that again and again and yet you continue to post the same stuff. They are straw men. Irrelevant. Not the subject of discussion. Can you please read the freaking thread and stop posting irrelevant stuff? Or do I have to open yet another pit thread complaining about how people are too freeking lazy to read the thread and just go about spouting whatever comes to their minds? Read the freaking OP. Please . I am begging you. Sheesh.
Ah. Obviously, no private property exists on the border. :rolleyes:
Obviously, you have a ‘open-borders’ agenda that you are pushing. Fine. But you cannot conveniently leave out parts of the debate that do no fit in with your ill-conceived view of the matter at hand.
Simply because you cannot come up with a decent response to points that myself and some other posters bring up does NOT make those points straw men or irrelevant. It makes them little doses of the real world, which you apparently want discounted in this debate.
>> Simply because you cannot come up with a decent response to points that myself and some other posters bring up does NOT make those points straw men or irrelevant
The response has been repeated over and over: You are making up scenarios which do not fit into the OP no matter how you look at them. Everybody here recognises the right anyone has to defend himself and we are not talking about that, ok? We are talking about vigilantes who form armed groups and go looking for trouble.
Ah, screw it. I give up.
Yeah, I think I’m about done, too.
Robert, it’s as if we were in a thread discussing second and third-trimester abortions, and you kept coming in and saying, “Yeah, but what about first-trimester abortions? Whaddaya think about that?”
The self-styled “border patrols” are not discriminating between private and public land. When they sit there with their electronic surveillance equipment, scanning for illegals, they aren’t saying, “Oops, that batch there, they’re coming over the border onto National Forest land, we’ll have to let 'em go.” No, quite the contrary, they’re rushing out there to stop them whether they’re on public land or private land.
And this thread is about the fact that by patrolling public land, the self-styled “border patrols” are actually working against the law, since we already have duly authorized representatives whose job it is to patrol those public lands–the real Border Patrol.
Arizona law says that fences alone aren’t enough. No trespassing signs have to be posted at legally defined intervals and even the letters must be in a certain color and of a certain size. I also hunted all over eastern Oregon and went over and under a lot of fences. If a rancher wanted to keep people out he posted no hunting signs.
I found this article Border problems and it says Barnett was even stopping and holding people along the highway! So that shoots down all of you clinging to this whole “trespassers” excuse.
The Barnett brothers have not only violently apprehended migrant workers on their ranch, but have also gone outside their property and onto state highways such as Highway 80 ordering “suspected illegal aliens” off the road and holding them until Border Patrol agents arrive. On one occasion, the Barnett brothers held 27 undocumented immigrants at gunpoint until Border Patrol authorities picked up them up.
And you just gotta love a guy with this kinda attitude:
“I’m prepared to take a life if I have to,” Roger Barnett told USA Today