I see you say inner city. How about a bunch of armed minorities scaring the shit out of a bunch of white kids in affluent areas?
The KKK was quite capable of terrorizing people without shooting them on sight–and the vigilantes’ targets are of specific ethnicities.
As to whether or not they have already shot anyone, there appears to be a difference of opinion on the matter, but I am not assuming that they have shot anyone–yet.
This is straight from the horse’s ass.
Robert, your cites are worthless, and your “refutations” ridiculous.
Your first cite was utterly irrelevant. I asked you for a cite showing that ranchers are having items stolen from their property by illegals, and you gave me, first, a cite talking about drug traffickers crossing the border and gang violence in Southern California. Not to mention the fact that it was an article written by Lance T. Izumi, who is–surprise!–a biased anti-immigration writer.
http://www.pacificresearch.org/press/com/1998/kqed_98-10-20.html
http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-text/immigration-classroom.html
http://www.vdare.com/misc/izumi_assimilation.htm
And your second cite was from–surprise!–a biased anti-immigration website. http://www.usbc.org/
Bring me some cites that are pertinent from unbiased sources and then we’ll talk.
Yeeeeehaaaw! The idiotic comebacks begin! I didn’t call you a “racist”–I asked you whether you were a member of storm front dot org. How skillfully you avoided answering the question! Yeeeeehaaaw!
I notice that you’ve also skillfully avoided giving me a cite for the folks at Aztlan advocating conquering America, too. Excellent tactics–just ignore what you’re incapable of doing.
Good for you! You figured it out! It’s BOTH!! I’m so proud of you.
Welp, you got me there, pardner. Those illegals sure are trespassin’, better turn some vigilantes loose to shoot 'em down like dogs.
…Except for one teeny little problem–they aren’t always on private property.
Not that much of the land along the Arizona border, at least, is private property. The majority of it is state, federal, and Indian lands.
http://rangelandswest.org/az/azranching/lands.html
See the tiny amount that’s white [heh]? That’s the “private property”. Nogales, the border crossing proper, is at the part where the flat east-west line jinks up to the northwest, right at that angle.
Here’s another version.
http://www.aaronline.com/documents/1969.pdf
See the orange part? That’s the “private” land. See the whole lot of not-orange parts? That’s the “public” land. Vigilantes have no right to patrol those public lands on behalf of the people of the state of Arizona or the people of the United States of America.
This is just retarded. A ranch spread out over 50,000 acres of desert is hardly the same thing as a “lawn”.
Your cite about “the Mexican Army already on our side of the border” is also deeply stupid and completely irrelevant. It’s talking about how Mexican soldiers are occasionally crossing over the border in pursuit of drug smugglers. It’s not saying that the “Mexican Army” is stationed at the border, which was what we were talking about in regards to the American Army.
Lel:
Um, maybe I’ve led a sheltered life, but it was my understanding that in America, you do not have the right to shoot someone just because he happens to be trespassing.
The rest of your garbage is not worthy of a response, but do NOT attribute quotes to me that I did not say.
If it serves to prevent trespass which hinders one’s ability to make a living, go for it.
tomndebb –
It does not matter what ethnicity they are if they are trespassing on the property of others. If it were people from thousands of different ethnicities trespassing on their property, it would still be trespass.
As for shootings, that is a danger. According to the Arizona Daily Star, it appears that shots have been fired on both sides.
DDG, upon searching for instances of theft, while it is rare that any one speaks of a general theft rate, it may be worth noting the elevated instances of auto theft in border areas. (See some cites from Texasand Arizona.)
As for your note about the private lands, take into consideration that another large portion of border crossing is done in or around Agua Prieta (MX)/Douglas (AZ), slightly west of the southeast corner of the state, right near a large concentration of white. Also, note that the site you have produced notes that a large portion of State Trust lands and BLM lands are leased for livestock grazing – while those who run livestock on this land do not own the land per se, they do own the livestock, and keeping an environment free of litter for their livestock is something in which they have an economic stake.
Maybe I’ve lived a sheltered life, but I always knew to keep off ranch property if I didn’t belong there because the ranchers had guns.
It looks like december is once again just trusting his ignorant sources. I feel sick today, don’t feel like searching for the sources to reply, but that is ok, I have Duck Duck Goose here! Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Because of a quirk of fate all my family got to America with valid visas. But while I was waiting for my visa, threats to my family convinced us to send me early. And yes, I had to cross the dessert 25 years ago. Thanks to amnesty I managed to become legal and then a citizen, although I did not serve in the military other members of my family served or are in the service, I did however managed to do testing for components for the tomahawk missiles, those that kicked Saddam’s butt in the Gulf War.
Guys, besides being future dopers 
those people crossing today are humans too. And most of them are willing to eventually become exemplary citizens; I think we should be working to press for a more just society on the countries those people are leaving.
So I’ve been through most of these and I’m glad to find most dopers disapprove. I’m also amazed by how little some people know about their southern border… there IS a great big wall, in some places fences upon fences, where not a wall a river, a perilous one at that. What these people do is ilegal, they know it. What they do not now is what awaits them, for the most part, humiliation, and deportation. I just saw the evening news, a boat with 20 Guatemalans, 80 (or so) Salvatorians and 20 Chinese(eans?) was caught off the coast of southern Mexico. Obviously, they were headed to the border. These people pay anywhere between 2,000 and 8,000 bucks to get across, smuggled God knows how. This is what’s called here as the american dream. Final remark, you are a superpower. First world. Money. Opportunity. You strongly influence our culture, economy and politics. What didja think, people from the third world would run away from your country? They will, as long as you continue to be a “richer country” try to get in. I’m not saying you brought this upon yourselves, just that it comes with all the other things. Of course that’s just me, I could be wrong.
Congrats, GIGObuster.
I think you’re confusing me with some other poster. Maybe RobertTB?
I agree with all of this. BTW I’m the son of an immigrant myself.
May I recommend simply dropping the notion of a national border, enforcing a landowner’s authority to decide who may and may not come across his land, ending all welfare assistance to individuals and corporations, eliminating public schools and frivolous restrictions and regulations on industry, withdrawing our troops from their occupation of more than half the nations on earth, stopping our interference in the incessant squabbles of other nation-states, abolishing all foreign aid programs and all offices of foreign diplomacy, unclogging avenues of free trade and international commerce, allowing peaceful honest people to pursue their own happiness in their own way, leaving people to succeed and fail by the decisions they make for themselves, enacting a single law to prohibit coercion, and then eliminating the legislature?
Yes, Lib, you may certainly recommend those things.
OK, I made that up.
Xeno:
[Bullwinkle voice]
And now I’ll pull a rabbit outta my hat! (Nothin’ up m’sleeve…) 
[/Bullwinkle voice]
<< sigh >> :rolleyes: Okay, I’ll bite. Precisely what quotes did I attribute to you that you did not say? You mean the “blah blah blah” bit?
Lel:
No, dear, it’s not only not worth noting, it’s completely irrelevant. I haven’t heard anybody at all accuse illegal immigrants of boosting cars while they’re trudging through the desert. You’re the first one. Congratulations. :rolleyes:
Um, consider the possibility that border areas are also drug trafficking areas, which would much more easily explain the elevated instances of auto theft there?
Pfui, another irrelevant non-issue for people whose minds are already made up that illegals are bad. Litter doesn’t endanger cattle unless they’re knee-deep in Wal-Mart bags and Burger King wrappers, and if the Coronado National Forest is knee-deep in Wal-Mart bags and Burger King wrappers, it’s sure news to the media–total silence there.
Cows aren’t stupid enough to eat the occasional piece of wind-blown litter, or human turds. Cows do not get 6-pack plastic rings caught around their necks and die. Cows live in pastures alongside interstate highways all across this great land that are much more littered than the Coronado National Forest.
I’m not talking about whether it’s done, I’m talking about whether it’s legal.
And AFAIK, it ain’t legal for Joe Ranchowner to shoot you if you step on his land. I welcome the input of the SDMB’s lawyers on this…
Okay, it took me a while, but I think I’ve got a realistic scenario for this.
Say there’s a group of blacks who operate a big truck farm out in Kane County, growing high-priced organic fruit and veggies for the Chicago restaurant trade. They’re surrounded by mushrooming suburban growth, but they’re doing okay.
Say that for some reason a group of white suburban teens decide to start harassing them. They come onto the property, start tearing up plants, knocking over baby fruit trees.
According to Lel, the farmers have the right to shoot them.
Why might border areas be drug trafficking areas? Because drug smugglers are among the group illegally crossing there. So, if vigilantes reduce drug smuggling, they might reduce drug trafficking and its attendant crimes.
Nice try, your tactic lately is to find articles that are less biased for the OP, but then you give the game away in your subsequent answers. Stop using those sources, that distribute ignorance, for your overall view.