Oh, and part of the La Raza debate is apparently there was a study showing that Hispanic students who took La Raza classes did better academically and had higher graduation rates. Then there was another study that said just the opposite. So it’s a classic case of dueling studies, people cite the one that they agree with and loudly state the flaws of the one they don’t.
Clever. But really, I already acknowledged your acerbic wit, so this is just showing off.
Allow me to fight your ignorance
I reckon 19% counts as more then none, que no?
You know we could catch a lot of immigrants if we install a camera for Big Brother in every single home. You are serious about stopping illegal immigration, right? So let’s start with yours.
Otherwise why fuck should Hispanics give up their right to equal treatment under the law, if you won’t give up your right to privacy?
Dang it I forgot my cite.
You may have a point… if it was not assumed and promised by many that immigration reform was supposed to be part of the solution to this issue.
Yeah, we should should not risk making you look like a total jerk uh? 
I knew that, I moved to Arizona from California as I realized it was going down for other reasons over there, Now they are passing laws and rules that affect me directly as a person that was looking to become an educator. You bet this is personal.
Well. I bet that when you retire you will not feel bad that you are getting money from ****my ****taxes and from many others that became legal. However even when I know that silly magellan01s will get their social security from people like me I think that would be fair.
Immigration reform will ensure that many that are illegal now will pay fines and legalize their status, with that in place it would be indeed fair to police our borders better.
If those quotes are truly representative of it. I have a hard time believing it could encourage any success. I mean why even try if you believe there’s a bunch of racists at the top waiting to beat you down and exploit you?
Daly show said the violent crime rate in Arizona is at the lowest since 1970. The property crime rate is at the lowest since 1966. The immigrants are not causing a crime wave.
FoieGrasIsEvil asked you:
Your response completely avoids giving an answer. Would you mind answering it? I was quite interested in hearing you view.
(removed)
Um…your cite…proves my point about where the illegal immigrants come from, estimates how many there are and uh…what? If it looks like a Mexican, talks like an Ecuadorian…its Hispanic.’
Look, I realize this is a multi-faceted issue. I speak Spanish pretty well. I have no hatred for people of Hispanic origin. In fact, I think that by and large, they are a very accommodating and interesting people and culture.
But that isn’t really the point, is it? Either we have immigration laws or we don’t. But we do. We just haven’t been enforcing them, pretty much at all.
The INS deportations are a drop in the bucket. So what to do? You and I hear all the arguments both ways…“It’ll devastate our agricultural economy”…“it doesn’t matter”…“where will all the roofers/leaf blowing guys/landscapers come from?”
All of it is stereotypical. I have no moral issue with MOST immigrants, because having talked to them, they are here to send money to their abuelas because they are so poor by comparison.
What I AM saying is…we are a nation of LAWS. We need to enforce THESE laws, or NO laws. We cannot have it both ways.
Unfortunately the solutions proposed are either all or none. There has to be a middle ground here, and it has pretty much nothing to do with fears of terrorism or other cultures, and everything to do with taxation, the fact that all legal citizens are documented, etc.
It isn’t that hard to grasp.
I’d prolly go after the people that hire them, and work on negating the conditions that make immigration happen. How many undocumented Canadians ahve you known? I’ve known of one. Why is that? Consider this thought experiment. At the best of times you can barely feed your family. All you have to do is sneak across a border, sure it’s illegal up there, but means you can send money home so your kids can eat. What do you do? Do you follow the law even if it means your kids may starve, or do you say screw the law, and go out to feed your family? I’m not saying all Mexicans who immigrate illegally are in this position but I am saying many are.
I mean would you move to a foreign country with a different language far from home, where you could be arrested and sent back without warning, climbing under a fence after hiking miles through the desert just for shits and giggles?
I would be willing to bet good money most Mexicans would be happy with Mexico if they could, you know, eat reliably and stuff. That’s why I’d focus on helping Mexico help it’s self. I’m talking education programs, farm aid programs, and stuff. Not sure exactly, but definitely a guest worker program. Stuff to help our neighbor to the south build it’s self up. Because an educated more well off population will be in a lot better place to tackle some of their other social problems, but it’s hard to focus on government corruption if the sound of your growling stomach keeps interrupting your thoughts.
Canadians won’t starve if they stay Canada, so they stay. The Mexican immigration problem is a symptom of a much larger social problem. People won’t follow laws when it conflicts with their basic needs to survive.
However if you want my ultra honest answer as things are now I’d rather some do illegally immigrate if it means their families are fed.
No matter what, I wouldn’t single out a large group of Americans just because of who their parents were for special attention.
This is a good post, and I pretty much agree.
Maybe we set up free foodstands at the border? Give away free food and send them on their way.
Meh.
I do also agree that this is an economic issue, both for Mexico and for the USA.
I wonder how much legalizing marijuana would slow the flow of illegals into this country? A lot of the pot in America comes from or through our Southern border…
If this kind of thing already happens to U.S. citizens who immigrated legally, and in a state that has not passed a law like Arizona’s, I am boggled how anyone can think things won’t be much worse in a state that has specifically allowed using suspicion of forein appearance, or whatever the idiotic verbiage is, to arrest and hold people. Ones who are here legally and able to document it, even.
If you were foreign-born and here legally, or heck, if you look (or sound) like you might be foreign-born and are here legally, would you be OK with being held by police 12 hours or more over a traffic stop, even if you are able to prove you are here legally? I sure wouldn’t.
What a remarkably simplistic response to a complex problem.
Why not just make it mandatory for everyone that’s a legal resident to have either a driver’s license or a walking ID card that you can only obtain through proof of citizenship? Ergo, no carrying around “papers” and such. If you draw suspicion of being an illegal, you produce the card, you are not detained.
“Your papers, please” vs “Your card, please”…
Yeah, that’s a massive improvement…
Proof of US citizenship or legal residence is already required to get an Illinois driver’s license. The guy in the story I linked to also had his military ID, and had his brother present a copy of his naturalization certificate. That apparently wasn’t good enough.
See, this is why I think local law enforcement has no business enforcing immigration laws - too many of them either don’t know what the hell they’re talking about, or don’t care.
Resident aliens are required to carry their cards already.
See 8 USC 1304 (e)
Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.
Stooge, what’s the point of your post?
So, if resident aliens are already required to carry such a card, and you do have to provide proof of citizenship to get a valid driver’s license, presumably having one or the other should be good enough proof of ID for any joe schmoe cop.
The question is, why isn’t it?