Arizona's immigration law - genius

I am amazed at the left-wing rhetoric surrounding the recently passed Arizona law regarding illegal immigrants.

After all, they are ***illegal ***immigrants. In this country illegally. If they enter the country through the proper channels, then they shouldn’t have a problem with Arizona law officials. I see this as a smart move by the Arizona legislature. Why?

  1. I believe we will start to see a funneling effect of illegal immigrants moving across the boarder into California, and New Mexico, and skipping Arizona. Texas will also see an increase. But if an illegal immigrant can cross into the US, why risk crossing into Arizona? It doesn’t make sense.

  2. The increased volume of illegals crossing into the other three states may force them to enact similar legislation to help contain costs. Handling illegal aliens is not a cheap endeavor, and other states may reach the financial breaking point.

  3. This is a state issue, so I don’t see how a federal law could possibly over-ride Arizona’s legislation. Unless the federal government is willing to cover the costs associated with illegal immigration, as well as undermining their own immigration laws, they will have to stay out of this one.

  4. If other border states do enact similar legislation, it will force the US to actually deal with illegal immigration from Mexico instead of just giving it a wink and a nod. It’s a real problem. It needs a real solution. Now is as good a time as any to begin to face the issue.

Any thoughts on the potential state law domino theory I have proposed? Or does everyone on this board feel that the law is immoral, inhumane, and any other nonsensical, over-reactive words that skirt the main issue at hand?

Yes, but what is the “real problem”? You need to start with that, before you can decide what the solution is. It’s not the presence of brown-skinned folk in Arizona who speak Spanish – some of them have had ancestors living in Arizona for hundreds of years. It’s not that backpacker from Germany, who’s traveling around the US with his girlfriend from New York, and who has overstayed his visa waiver, unless you really don’t like him working for tips at his girlfriend’s family’s restaurant in Manhattan. Start by telling us what the real problem is.

Unless you have the ability to tell illegal immigrants from legal immigrants or citizens by sight or magical powers, you have to have another way of telling them apart. Which means that legal immigrants and citizens are caught on the same hook as illegal immigrants and will have to demonstrate their citizenship or legal status.

Do you walk around with the ability to demonstrate your citizenship? I don’t. Brown people in Arizona will have to.

That is the problem. Legal or illegal status isn’t.

I have to admit, I really don’t understand the vitriol this law is getting.

Loads of illegals are entering the country illegally (most illegals get in on visas then overstay, but a large number enter by the border).

The place where they enter is giving their police powers to check people’s citizenship if they think they are illegal, and therefore deport them.

Don’t see the problem.

Are their no copies of the Constitution available on your part of the internet? :dubious:

Although I agree with the premise of your POV, I’m afraid it’s a necessary step. I understand that people think it’s unfair, it’s profiling, etc. However, if a state is being over-run and/or brought to the brink of bankruptcy because it cannot pay for the services required by illegals (who let’s face it, are predominately Mexicans), there has to be some way of identifying those people. Until a better solution is devised (and I’m all ears), the only way to do it is to require proof of citizenship.

Can you get a driver’s license without being a citizen? If the answer is no, I would think that most people carry that sort of ID around.

I know it’s not perfect. But it’s a start, and my hope is that as a country we will have to finally deal with this problem. That includes going after those companies that employ illegals and pay poor wages with no benefits to improve their bottom lines.

The “real problem” is the steady stream of illegal immigrants crossing the border into the US without following the proper procedures, applying, and waiting their turn to enter legally.

Brown skinned people in Arizona who speak spanish is not the problem. I agree. But brown skinned people in Arizona who crossed into the US illegally and begin to use the services of this country (like health care… babies being born, emergencies, etc.) without any ability to pay is a problem that cannot go on forever. States are going bankrupt. This is a large expenditure, which cannot be ignored and would be better contained in some way. The border state taxpayer cannot carry the burden forever, so what do they do?

Build a wall? That’s just nonsense.

Yes, you can. I have an Ohio driver’s license (perfectly legally), and I am not a citizen of the U.S.

You can’t divide people in the U.S. into two categories: citizens and illegal immigrants. And there is not a perfect correlation between being Hispanic and being and illegal immigrant. That seems to be the thinking underlying a lot of this stupidity, and it’ds why the “solutions” won’t solve the “problem”.

It is never necessary to trample on the rights of US citizens, no matter what color they are. Requiring those among us who are brown or black to work harder, to jump through more hoops, to carry papers, to suffer harassment, to be detained, these things aren’t just “unfair.” These things are a blow to the fundamental ideals of the country–that we are equals, that our parents do not matter, that we can be safe from government harassment and intrusion as we go about our legal day-to-day business.

This isn’t something that’s a “necessary step.” It is an offense.

of course. And no law specifically given to the Federal Govt. is reserved for the States. I think the States have every right to decide how they want to spend their tax money. The Federal government can’t direct the states to spend tax money on what the Federal Government says it should.

Unless you have a copy of the constitution that specifically discusses illegal immigration from Mexico, I’m not sure what you are referring to.

So open an amnesty program, get them all SSNs and tax them. There, solved the problem. Now you can stop bothering the Garcias about their identification papers, Herr Pot.

What queue? For most of the illegal immigrants, there’s no queue that they could join. For some, the queue may be many years long.

Cite? In other words, can you find a decent estimate of how much these people cost in government expenditure, versus how much they pay in taxes? And, yes, they do pay taxes – income tax, social security tax, sales tax, etc.

If I’m in Germany, can the german police ask for my passport? Can they check to see if I’m in the country legally? What’s the difference?

If I can’t provide the proof Germany requires, I suffer the consequences of being an illegal. I don’t think the Arizona law enforcement officials are going to be running around checking for papers. I suspect it will be part of the process of arresting someone. Checking someone without a reason would not be practical, even if you think they would want to.

If people are already willing to break the law to come into the US, why would a new law stop them? Are there enhanced criminal penalties in the Arizona law, or is it just faster deportation? Put me down for thinking this will not be much of a deterrent.

I didn’t know that. (license issue)

I also agree that not all “brown” people are illegal immigrants. That’s just ignorant thinking.

Not a chance. Amnesty doesn’t solve the problem. It encourages more bad behavior.

I freely admit I don’t have the answer to this issue, but Arizona didn’t pass this law for shits and giggles. I believe it was a necessary step to help control costs. Whether or not it works is another issue.

And yes, thank you for the Nazi reference. When you can’t argue your point, call the opposing side a Nazi. Anti-semite also works for shock value.

I find it amusing and sad both that you went with a Germany reference and that you think a Germany reference actually supports your side.

I could not tell you what the German police can ask to see. I am not in Germany. I am not German. Arizona is not in Germany, unless my grasp of geography is really ramshackle.

That is the difference.

In fact, in Germany, as in most European countries, everyone needs to carry an identification card, and the police can ask to see it at any time. Do you want this to be federal law in the U.S.? (And no, it couldn’t just be an Arizona law: you can’t stop people from New Mexico entering the state without ID.)

Each country has a process, and as I understand it, each country is allotted “X” number of people to enter the US legally. You are absolutely correct that this process may take years for some folks. Or never.

As for the cite, I have been doing some google-fu on Arizona specifically, but I’ll open up the search to all the border states to see if I can get some estimates of actual money being spent.

And no, they do not all pay income and SSDI tax. Sales tax yes, but if you are paying someone illegally under the table to cut your yard, you aren’t paying the federal taxes, state and local taxes that would be required, not to mention SSDI. That’s a problem that also needs to be addressed. I do not blame the illegal for not paying these taxes. If it is a cash transaction, it’s hard to prove. That’s on the employer to put the proper paperwork together to capture the labor provided.

ok, substitute Croatia for Germany. Or any other predominately white european country. Sorry I used Germany. :rolleyes: