Arkham City or Skyrim?

The Game Room
21

I don’t necessarily mean broken as in literally buggy (though there are lots of fun physics bugs), so much as broken in the sense of counter-intuitive and poorly designed. The fact that in order to make a character that is strong in the stats you want in Oblivion, you have to create a character with different primary stats is silly and poorly thought out. Even Morrowind had its problems, as much as I disliked Oblivion’s move to a skill based hit system, Morrowind had the counter-intuitive notion that just because you hit something doesn’t mean you actually hit it (since that was calculated by character stats and RNG).

I suppose, though I’d argue Arkham Asylum Batman is much closer to a smooshing together of all the Batman iterations throughout the eras. It’s mostly TAS, yes, but it has very much Dark Knight, and by extension very, very much The Killing Joke and older Batman. The Riddler is probably closer to Jim Carrey’s performance of him than anything else etc.

Either way, it seems like Batman keeps dying off and then randomly coming back, Batman & Robin kills it, TAS brings it back, then it fizzles, BOOM Batman Begins.

22

I had the same rule but a rule needs exceptions to be a rule and this is one of them.

Some time ago I was in between games and very reluctantly decided to give Batman: Arkham Asylum a go based on great reports from people whose opinion I respect on gaming (including some here).

I really expected it to be merely passable at best and would provide some distraction.

I was so wrong.

The game is fantastic. I mean really, really fun. I was shocked and pleasantly so.

My main quibble is it is a Games for Windows Live release and I fucking HATE GFWL (I did not know when I bought it from Steam GFWL would insert itself).

You can also feel the console pedigree on the PC but the port on the PC is smooth and very well done.

I know not every genre is to everyone’s liking. That said this game is fun as hell.

I am MAJORLY pissed the PC version is held back till November (when Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 arrive). Indeed, as much as I want to play Batman I am thinking it will have to wait for me to finish the other two and I’ll buy it on sale.

If they had released it today I’d have paid full price in a heart beat. Waiting for it to be on sale is my quiet little “fuck you” to the developer/publisher for delaying its release.

FWIW Batman: Arkham City is about as highly rated game as I have ever seen on Metacritic (95 out of 100 on 33 professional reviews).

23

Touche’, Miller, now I’m wondering what the correct label for the Batman phenomenon should be…maybe it’s just that, a phenomenon :D. Jragon does make a good point though, it seems to go through phases, so it may also be a recurring fad.

I get what your issue with the Elder Scrolls stock is, on the other hand it doesn’t keep you from enjoying the elements that are good. Sure, there’s some leveling issues like all the bandits everywhere having Deadric or Glass armor, that’s a bit ridiculous (it is nice though, lots of good loot just by fighting them :D). Bethesda still needs credit for improving the series so dramatically, and though the graphics for Skyrim won’t blow away Oblivion, I’m willing to bet that it will blow it away with everything else. That being said, it may also be true that the PC gamers unknowingly assist the devs with finding the problems and making things better, Todd Howard said he was interested to see what mods will arise for Skyrim, and I almost took that to mean it’s the best way to tell what they did wrong with their games to correct it in the next. So for that, I thank you ;).

I’ll keep that in mind, no harm in trying one of them out if I can get it for cheap, not about to fork out the cash for something I know will only last for 20 hrs. tops, maybe I’ll just rent it some time. :slight_smile:

24

I bought Batman: Arkham Asylum for $7.50 this summer on Steam. I’d be surprised if they don’t offer at least as good a deal when Arkham City is released on Steam, as a promo/tie-in; and if they don’t, I’m virtually certain it’ll be on sale for $7.50 or less come Steam’s Christmas sale, since it’s been that price during their last two major sales. And yes, I just finished it, and it’s a freakin’ beautiful, well-paced game. Unlike some other folks, I really appreciated the boss fights: I enjoy how they make me switch up my fighting styles. I’m not a particularly good gamer, so it took me half a dozen or more tries to make it through a lot of those fights, but they were fun enough that I didn’t mind.

25

Actually, Arkham Asylum is available on Steam right now for $9.99, or bundled with Lego Batman for $19.99. (I haven’t played the latter and have no idea whether it’s any fun).

26

The dangerous fad is the short, sharp one. Who cares about *Avatar *today ? Exactly.
OK, that’s clear as tar, let me explain: there’s currently a regain of superhero popularity after the retardedness that were the 90s. Within this ensemble is, among others, Batman (which is as much of a theme as anything at this point - as Jragon says, there are tons of different Batmen). And within *this *ensemble is Hollywood’s Dark Knight.
Only the latter would be the source of terrible, terrible games, because it’s the only one that’s time sensitive and *really *license heavy.

The decision to make Arkham Asylum at all evidently had something to do with the general popularity of Batman and the inherent awesomeness of the character, but nothing to do with any specific Batman “event” outside the game, if you follow my meaning. As such, it was developed to be a game first and foremost, with the development cycle of a regular game and the same sort of budgets as a regular game ; its business plan was not to capitalize on the horde of clueless mothers who buy games based on the cover art.

Or, to put it another way, is the box art of the game a copy/paste of a movie poster and/or series DVD boxset ? Alternatively, does it say “The game of the X” on the box ? Yes ? It’s a piece of shit. No exceptions.

27

Actually, I lie, there is one exception that I know of: the Pirates of the Caribbean game. But that’s because it was originally developed as Sea Dogs 2 with the license tacked on very shortly before release. As such it’s… well, it’s an Akella game, so clunky and thoroughly bug-ridden. Still, it has its charm.

28

Ah, Akella and Bethesda! Notice the similarity to Morrowind?

You are spot on about all that stuff about the packaging, who says you can’t read a book by it’s cover? :smiley:

29

I don’t think Batman’s popularity ever really “dies off.” He’s got a fairly consistent baseline popularity, which occasionally spikes when there’s a high-profile project using the character. Some of these projects fail, such as Batman and Robin, but that doesn’t kill the character - people who like Batman still like Batman just as much, and are still buying other ancillary Batman-branded merchandise, they’re just avoiding the ones specifically associated with the failed project.

This does make me curious, though - I wonder how the failure of things like the Schumacher movie franchise effects other product lines associated with the character? Did the movie flopping drag down sales on the comic, or did those numbers remain relatively static? Or even increase? A big media blitz for a really bad movie could still raise awareness and interest in the character, that carries over as an increase in sales for other media, even as the movie goes down in flames.

30

As much as I enjoy Bethesda games, I have to disagree with this. They learn very little. The player-created mods made to fix gameplay and graphical issues for every single game they release are the same across every game. It’s almost like a running joke at this point, except it’s more annoying than amusing now. The previews I’ve seen for Skyrim give me a little hope, but they’ve been so consistent with their shortcomings over the past decade I’m not going to hold my breath.

Todd Howard already knows what mods will come out for Skyrim just by looking at the most popular types of mods for Fallout, Oblivion, Morrowind, and New Vegas.

31

Ah, but I’m not talking about graphics so much, more with what Jragon’s issues are like general mechanics of the game, and my issues like level-scaling. They’ll often try something new, find out it doesn’t work as well as anticipated, and let modders play around and get something a little better, then Bethesda makes it awesome. Morrowind had no level-scaling (not that I could tell anyway), level-scaling was broken in Oblivion, Skyrim’s level-scaling will be damn near perfect for the average gamer (or so I’d like to believe - of course Mulder wanted to believe, and look where that got him :D). Jragon should be happier since you don’t even pick skills, you just level on what you want to and then switch to something else to start leveling that, no boundaries to magic, stealth or warrior characters. I think the changes are so large and dramatic you may be having trouble telling what they are, the entire game is focused on fixing what people didn’t like the most, not minor issues like a couple little things that some people thought could be better. Hell, I think there’s even a mod out there to make potion bottles look better, but who really gives a f*ck, Bethesda will try to make everything better and cater to the majority. :slight_smile:

I should mention that one of the reasons I hold Bethsoft in such high regard is due to the fact that I consider myself a media professional, and when I see a company like that taking pride in their work and not just trying to make another quick buck it reflects on all of us who consider ourselves artists in any similar trade. I watched a few videos about the team and so forth on gamespot (or I think it was gamespot), and one of them was the sound engineer, a trade that I’ve always admired, and an unsung hero in most media. That gentleman inspired me beyond belief, a true talent, a great foley artist and even an underdog story to boot, but only a peer can really appreciate such a master. So there’s many levels to my love of Bethesda, and being their best series, they really put heart and soul into making TES, it’s not just game to them, you can see that in their eyes.

32

Well, no, not really. Bethsoft has not, to my knowledge, made great strides in adapting even small elements of the better mods out there.

We may hope so, but thus far there isn’t any evidence. In any case, getting level scaling right would merely be going back to the Morrowind standard, and not completely mesing things up. That’s not exactly greatness.

And this is one major reason their games have gone somewhat downhill, because their estimation of the “majority” has led them to make shallower games of late.

You say it’s a company which takes “pride in their work.” That may be, but I haven’t seen that they posess a very strong track record. Bethsoft isn’t a joke, but it’s medium-level player, with a lot of so-so titles. In fact the biggest disctinction they have is their willingness to go for a long-development time games. That’s not worthless, but you also can’t say their unique, or even that among the long-development-time companies they’re the winners (Blizzard and Valve being the big winners there)

I’m not trying to dump on Bethsoft (I’ve bought enough of their games), even if I’m unhappy with direction for the last few years. However, I think you’re kinda-maybe-sorta drifting into fanboy mode, not clear appraisal.

In truth, Bethsoft has tended to release more polished but much less complete games with ever release, stripping out elements and closing off aspects fo the game many players enjoyed. And while modders do exist to put them back in, it always creates complexities and tension between mods. And even the msot brilliant modders can’t match the resources of a major game studio.

So as of Oblivion, we no longer have spears. Or levitation. Or climbing. Or moral complexity. Or flexible quests. Or a distinctive world…

33

I see you, bandit, you stalker :D.

I just wish you’d come up with a different tune to play, you call me fanboy, I call you supergeek :D. For once explain to me, what’s so great about spears, levitation, etc.? From what I can tell, Morrowind got rid of climbing (useless), what do you mean by ‘flexible quests’ (you do realize Skyrim will have far better quest dynamics right?), and in what way was Oblivion not distinctive? Is it the fact that it’s interesting to look at, rather than the dull, lifeless worlds of Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind?

Excuse me for being more excited about duel swords than spears, not only did I despise the spear (not that I cared, I just chose not to ever use it), but the fighting style of the spear is only for phalanx, straight forward combat, if the line breaks you drop it and draw your sword…pretty sure it’s useless in the Elder Scrolls world, unless you were planning a full-scale battle, then I could see the advantage :D.

Levitation and Mark-Recall were done away with for a reason, which Todd explained, they make it easy for the game to be broken (you can mess up a quest unknowingly and need to reload previous save point), they take the player out of the universe too much (breaking the fourth wall and alienating you from the character), and overall are hard to implement into the game (which means longer dev time and clunkier game).

I realize you’re probably an old Arena fan, or loved Daggerfall, but dude, TES is evolving, yes they want more mainstream attention, but they aren’t sacrificing anything as far as I can tell, only improving it.

:slight_smile:

34

Levitation and Mark/Recall never broke immersion (I fully accepted I was a wizard and that magic entailed flying and teleporting). And speaking as a programmer who has made some small games, teleportation and flying are hilariously simple to implement, in fact, walking on the ground is actually a fair bit more complicated than flying from a programming standpoint. Teleportation is literally just setting a position, perhaps if you’re going long distances as with Mark/Recall it’s more akin to saving and loading a file (since you have to unload assets and reload farther assets), maybe the most complex thing would be the case where you teleport on top of a person, and it’s not that hard to move that person a few feet away into a free space.

I may be able to buy the breaking the main quest thing, but it’s not that hard (it’s really, really not from a coding standpoint) to add triggers to certain areas or events that essentially tell the player “your spell fizzles” if they try to use it in a place that would break the game. I guess there’s always the unforseen bugs, but if you try to quash all of those you’d have no game at all.

Mark/Recall were my favorite part of Morrowind, once I could cast those I had a little house in a town near the northeastern coast (until I became a faction leader, then I set my mark there), and when I was done questing, I’d recall there and manage my stuff and set out again. It was probably the best balanced fast travel, it let you have a haven you could get to if you needed it, but also forced you to see the world. Removing it removed quit a bit of flavor, imo. I suspect the real reason for removing Mark/Recall in Oblivion was simply that Fast Travel made it redundant.

35

A company that takes pride in their work doesn’t need ten years to figure out how to release a game that’s not an unplayable, bug-riddled mess.

36

Oh my, the Bethsoft hate, I’m going blind from it all. :smiley:

[note to Bethsoft] Bethesda, don’t mind these haters, just remember what Katt Williams told you: “Haters gonna’ hate, that’s their damn job!”

Okay, so I’m a fanboy, …I love you Bethsoft! You can do no wrong! At least you teach Lionhead a well deserved lesson :D.

…and with that, I bow out, seeing as how this is going nowhere, we’ve all chosen sides, and it’s clear nobody will budge, not even those straddling the line.

:slight_smile:

37

You could not be more wrong. Given space to manoeuvre, a guy with a spear will trounce a swordfighter any day, any time. Reach, baby, reach. Sword guy ain’t ever getting in range without catching a couple pokes where it hurts. Then the spearman takes a step back, and the situation repeats. Why do you figure guardsmen chose to fight with halberds to begin with ?
And if you do manage to get in close ? The spear guy can just switch his grip towards the balance point and now he’s got a makeshift bo staff - all the parry coverage of a second weapon, and all the angles of attack too.

Besides, spears teach Endurance, which you want ASAP :smiley:

38

Also, count me among the folks who lament Oblivion’s move towards a more…well, some would say accessible, I would say vanilla setting. In the Elder Scrolls lore, Cyrodill is a jungle. And what’s more, it’s a Catachan-style jungle where everything is trying to kill you. Which makes the Roman Legion contrast interesting. Hell, it’s even referred as such in books you can find in Oblivion. One of the core strengths of how powerful Morrowind was was the sheer alienness of the setting. Cities built under giant crab shells or carved into mushroom forests, odd language, volcanic glass weapons and ash storms…

Buuut I guess random knights in plate, rolling green hills and magical ruins catch more “imaginations” :confused: What’s the over-under that in *Skyrim *we’re going to see a lot of horned helmets and Scottish accents ?

39

Thw worst part is that they coudl still have had extensive forests. No matter what else it was, Oblivion remained huge. There was room for evergreen uplands, deciduous forests, frozen mountainscapes, and still hold enough room left over for 60% of the place to be a hellish jungle nightmare. Given the success of Shivering Isles, there was clearly mental space in the game for a hostile, aggressive junglescape.

Of course, I still want to know why the Imperial Guard built seven hundred fortresses, made certain to give each one winding basements, and then abandoned all of them. And ignores bandit-filled caves which literally open onto the main roads.

40

I agree that Morrowind had a far more interesting environment than Oblivion. I found Oblivion to be pretty, but quite boring environmentally. One of my favorite TES4 mods (series of mods, actually) added some hi-res environmentally diverse areas to the endless sameness of the vanilla game. I forget what they were called, but they were beautiful. And, like many other player-made mods for Bethsoft games, should not have been necessary in the first place.