[Text of article replaced with link. – MEB]
There’s a debate here?
You might consider quoting the article briefly, providing a link, and offering some comments of your own, next time.
GOD FORBID ANYONE JUST PROVIDES INFORMATION!
I had not heard this story before, and I think it’s just more proof that American morale is going to crap.
You still should give a clue as to what is being debated…
Here is a debate topic.
These are men who know what they are doing and cannot live with the guilt. Plus, having their house taken away by the bank because they cannot be home making money for their families also play into it.
2Thick: Here’s another concept–put your opinions in the IMHO forum.
Sheesh… if that’s not the cheapest political shot I’ve seen, it’s damn close.
There’s no proof that there’s any “guilt” involved on the soldiers’ side of things, or that National Guard troops are involved. In case you aren’t aware, regular troops are full-time soldiers and make MORE money being over there as opposed to deployed state-side.
In fact, assuming this article to be more or less accurate concerning the number of US troops in Iraq, 13 suicides is LOWER than the USMC rate , just about the US Army rate, and slightly higher than the USAF rate.
Predicted suicide rates based on the information given in the OP:
12.6 / 100,000 = 0.000126 (suicides per man)
0.000126 * 125,000 (# of troops currently in Iraq) = 15.75 suicides
US Army rates:
11 / 100,000 = 0.00011 (suicides per man)
0.00011 * 125,000 (# of troops currently in Iraq) = 13.75 suicides
9.5 / 100,000 = 0.000095 (suicides per man)
0.000095 * 125,000 (# of troops currently in Iraq) = 11.875 suicides
So, even without getting into it much further, it doesn’t appear that the servicepeople in Iraq are committing suicide at any higher rate than they would be if they were deployed stateside.
And, according to NIMH the normal US rate is 10.6/100,000, which is just about the US Army rate, and for people aged 20-24, it’s 12.8/100,000, which is the USMC rate.
There’s no proof that morale is going down, no proof of guilt, hell, there’s no proof that anything is even out of the ordinary!
I suspect I’m being wooshed, but… gah? Are these men and women not in Iraq as part of their paying jobs? Do you think stateside marines have, like, part-time jobs at McDonald’s?
To be honest, 13 suicides, in 7 months among a population of 130.000 people under intense stress doens´t seem to be unreasonable.
Bump said it better.
I assume the suicide rates bump posted are per 100,000 people per year, but the troops have only been in Iraq for about half that, so the rate is slightly higher than you would expect stateside.
The woosh here is in relationship to Reserve units. Although many laws protect the jobs of reservists themselves, reservsts still do not pull paychecks when they are in the Reserves except their Reserve paycheck. For instance, some Reserve officer normally makes 110K per year through a management gig and the whole weekend warrior thing. Takes out financial obligations such as mortgage, car, and generally standard of living (although these are presumably flexible and simply an adjustment) items without considering fully the possibility of an extended deployment. Suddenly, they find themselves rotated into Iraq for six months, then a year, who knows how long, and they’re pulling a pay-check of 25-50K per year.
Essentially yes, they do have part time jobs at McDonalds. Only not part time and not at McDonalds.
Moderator’s Note: ExecutiveJesus, please review our policy on copright issues. Don’t just cut and paste an entire article on any of the SDMB forums. Also (and this is also in reply to Dostromin’s post), the purpose of the Great Debates forum is for debates. It’s therefore helpful to provide some point of view; when appropriate, a link or quotations (done in accordance with the copyright policy) may be included in support of the argument you’re trying to make. If you really don’t have a firm opinion about a subject, and would like to stimulate discussion in order to help you clarify your own opinion, your original post may be in the form of a question or questions. (“Does this news story mean that…?”)
I am shocked, shocked at the complacency of those who have posted so far. I for one, am completely against suicide by our armed forces members.
Nobody is talking to you. Did your mother not teach you any manners? Do not speak until you are spoken to.
No offence, but did you read MEBuckner’s post?
You didn’t do any of those things. If you feel that your comments are worthy of debate, form a debatable point, and support your contentions.
I don’t recall anyone talking to you then, 2Thick. Perhaps you should follow your own advice.
Or Maybe you’re just upset because you’ve been called (once again) on your habit of spewing out the first thing that comes to your mind with no ability to back up anything you say.
I stated facts about people losing their homes due to extended deployments and it should be common knowledge to anyone with an internet connection or a TV (although it seems that most people need to be spoon-fed basic morsels of non-propagandized information in North America).
If use cites for uncommon knowledge.
Here is a cite, if it makes you happy: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/2020/Iraq_reservefamilies_030414.html
I guess that you have not been here long enough to realize that nobody gets a free pass when they post “facts”, unless they are of the 2+2=4 variety, and even then then you may be asked to support your position. Your idea of common knowledge is not the same as mine, or the same as anybody else on these boards, that is why ‘Cite?’, is a very common refrain here.