Handy: please check http://www.mpc.edu for a school in our area which doesn’t cost that much.
I have to echo the “Don’t do it just for the bennies” advice, but would also question the wisdom of racking up huge debts to attend the “best college you can get into”. Unless you have very clear goals that will land you into a high-paying job, college loans can be crippling - I’ve known couples who completed their educations & came out of it with nearly $100,000 debts EACH. Guess they won’t be getting a mortgage anytime soon.
Options with the military:
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Enlist & sign up for college savings. The biggest obstacle here is staying single/childless - I have seen more dreams end this way than I can count. The military will pay up to 75% of tuition for courses taken while on active duty; you can knock out a lot of basic English & math that will give you a head start anywhere. BUT if a field exercise or deployment conflicts with your final, tough luck. But it is not uncommon to leave 4 years of active duty with 30-60 hours of credit.
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ROTC scholarship - it is probably too late to apply for a 4 year scholarship to start Fall '00. But anyone can take ROTC courses WITH NO OBLIGATION & compete for 2 & 3 year scholarships. All Jr & Sr ROTC students receive a stipend, but must accept a military obligation. Good try before you buy program.
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Combine Reserve/National Guard with college. You will have some post-college obligation, either in the Reserves/Guard or on Active Duty, depending upon the particular program.
Reality check:
Recruiters don’t tell out & out lies, but they will not necessarily volunteer the whole truth. Can you enlist for a specific specialty in the military? Yup. Guaranteed. [fine print]Unless you fail to complete basic training on schedule. This can affect 10-20% of recruits. Something as simple as a case of flu that makes you miss more than 2 days of training can cause you to be moved back a week or 2, and then your guaranteed specialty (or guaranteed dream assignment) is out the window. Like to cook? The Army likes to eat.[/fine print]
Sue from El Paso
Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you wanted.
I have to disagree with anyone who says not to go to the best college that they can get into. If you are willing to do certain basic types of work for a few years afterwards you can have your college loans forgiven. I work directly in the Student Financial Aid business ensuring that institutions don’t have high student loan default rates. There are always ways to get the education you desire and pay off the student loans or have them forgiven. As I said earlier, the Peace Corps will pay off your outstanding student loans as will working in a public school district that serves primarily disadvantaged students. I had a boyfriend who had his NYU Bachelor’s degree in business with a focus on teaching and his Master’s degree in business paid off completely because he was willing to work for three years in the Philadelphia public school system. Philadelphia is not the only school system that will pay off your student loan debts, there are many others. Also, you don’t necessarily have to work in an environment where you are forced to teach. Many social working programs will pay off any outstanding debt with a similar contract. There are always ways to go to the school of your choice and easier ways to relieve massive student loan debts, but as I said earlier you have to be willing to do some minor things involving your time. In the instances that the student does not go into these types of fields that enable him/her to pay off the debt, the student can either go on a graded payment scale or have the loans deferred for a period of time until he/she is able. Also, the higher priced institutions tend to have better job placement programs equivalent to their higher price. People from Harvard and Yale tend to get better jobs when the graduate not only because they went to a big name school, but also because their institutions placement offices receive more job announcements with higher paying jobs that will allow a student to more easily repay the loans.
HUGS!
Sqrl
Gasoline: As an accompaniement to cereal it made a refreshing change. Glen Baxter
First a run-down on the +/- of the branches as I know them.
Army–
Good service if you want to be stationed overseas…most of the bases in Germany are army bases. Does require that you can take orders without question, and put up with a lot of manual-type labor…While the army will give you training, all those commercials you see with the 18 year old person driving a tank are bull. You usually have to be in about 2-3 years before you start getting the more advanced training.
Air Force–
Sort of the same deal as the army…but with less physical labor. If you want a term of service that is more like a job, and less like boot camp, this is your place. Again, you have to be in for a couple of years before you start getting a lot of technical training. There are many advantages to the Air Force…not only do they have many bases around the world, but they have something called the “Homestead Act” (I think that’s the name) This allows you once during your enlistment to request that you stay where you’re at. In other words, if it’s approved, they can’t move you around all the time. This is the only branch that I know of that offers this.
Marines–
Well, my brother is a Marine…been in about 10 years…he likes it…but a lot of grunt work during your first 3-4 years. They are the most physicaly challenging of the services. I will say that I like the way they review a enlistie for advancement, but a lot of work in some unpleasant situations.
Navy–
This is the branch that I served in, so of course I’m biased, but I choose it after looking at all the other services. I liked the Navy, because I was able to get my electronics training right out of boot camp. I had to agree to serve 6 years, but I also was advanced to e-4 right away. I spent a solid year and a half in technical school…from 7:00am to 3:30pm and still had duty, and clean-up’s, but I learned some fairly marketable skills. Advancement can be difficult in the Navy, you basically take a 150 question test that covers almost everything in your “job description” even though most of it you probably never saw. Living on board ship can be trying, but I spent 6 years without doing it.
I’ll second the opinion that told you to try and aviod getting married/having children while you’re in. This is the biggest thing that keeps most people in. While you can make ok money in the Military, it’s difficult to save enough to support yourself while you’re out looking for a job. I personally believe that the Military encourages this by offering more money/bennifits to married service members.
The military will pay 75% of your schooling cost while you’re in, and there are several colleges and universities that offer courses specially for Military members and are willing to try and accomodate your schedule.
The trouble I had was being willing to spend my free time in school, and not hanging out/partying with my shipmates.
The G.I. Bill will pay you about $360 a month for 3 years if you’re a full time student, or a little less if you go part time. You do have to use it within 10 years of getting out, and you have to go to an accredited school. Not to mention that when you get out, you’ll be older than a lot of the students, and out of the practice of being in school. You’ll have to force yourself to go back and fit into that lifestyle.
As to the Peace Corps, well Squirl, I’m not sure of all the programs, but a good friend of mine joined for 2 years…got lousy pay, poor working conditions, and still has $30,000 in student loans. I suppose she might have signed up for the wrong plan, but she’s pretty good about reading the fine print.
There are no “perfect” options. Anything they choose will require that they sacrifice a part of their lives to pay for their education. Let me know if I can help anymore.
This is too long to proofread, so I’ll appologize for any mistakes.
I echo the posters who pointed out that he should only join the Army if he would like to have the Army experience, not just for the college money. It takes a lot of discipline, but if you’re willing to work hard and make some sacrifices, the Armed Services really do have a lot to offer.
As others have pointed out, while you are in service, you can get 75% of your college tuition paid. Sometimes, it can be hard to take classes because of work hours, deployments, ect, but they do have distance learning (internet courses, correspondence courses, ect.) You can also get college credit for your Army training; most, if not all, bases have education centers where you can get information about these programs.
The biggest obstacle most recruits face is not opportunity, it’s discipline. It can be tempting to go out partying with the guys from the barracks instead of hitting the books. Getting married and having kids (which a lot of young soldiers wind up doing) can make it difficult to go to school, even after you get out. If your student is not a very focused, goal driven, person, it might not be the best option for him.
BTW, I have a booklet which details all the benefits that Army personnel recieve, I can mail it to you if you’d like. I can also stop by the Ed. Center and pick up some pamphlets about the various educational opportunites offered by the Army. Just e-mail me if you’re interested. Hope this helps!
Alrightie, benefits of the services:
Army: You get to shoot people in exotic lands, including children & women, and its completely legal. Motto: Be all you can be, which isn’t much.
Air Force: You get to use planes to shoot lots more people than if you are in the army.
You can drop bombs on women & children, too, once again, completely legal. Motto: Look Up, Air Force, caution! Low ceiling.
Marines: You get a lot of hand to hand combat where you can stab & shoot lots of exotic people including women & children and its legal.
Navy: Here you use powerful ships [boats?] to shoot lots of exotic people you’ll never know, including women & children, and its legal too. Sometimes youll get on an aircraft
carrier with lots of nifty planes that have powers of shooting large areas of exotic cictzens.
What an exceptionally misguided and hateful post, handy. I suppose you spit on WW1 & WW2 veterans on Veteran’s Day, too? I suppose you think that Fonda was right to come down hard on Vietnam vets? I am glad you are enjoying the freedom to post asinine remarks like that which was paid for in the blood and suffering of soldiers. I think you should reevaluate whether you think that professional soldiers are little psychos who love to run around and shoot people.
I certainly hope that handy’s post was a misguided joke. I would hate to think there are people who view our Armed Services in that way. I was in the Army and I know for a fact that it is not “completely legal” to shoot women and children, even those in other countries.
Even in the middle of a war, you can’t just start plugging away at civilians. It would take pages for me to discuss all the factors considered before any decision is made by the Pentagon for aerial strikes; but suffice it to say that potential civilian casulties are taken into account and minimized as much as possible. There is certainly no “civilian target-practice” mentality.
I started a mpsisms thread about the wacky grants you can get
We live in an age that reads to much to be wise, and thinks too much to be beautiful–Oscar Wilde
Oh pardon my my offendness. But alas, being born in the time of the anti-vietnam war where there were frequent bumper stickers that said:
‘Join the Army, travel to exotic distant lands and kill people,’ I tend to take things quite matter of fact. And yes, people in the army did shoot people, marines too & navy used boats to shoot people, air force bombed people [ you really think they can seperate children from the sky?].
Unless any of you can prove no one got shot.
Handy is undeniably right. Innocent people get hurt in combat. but the problem is even deeper. Why, innocents have gotten killed when police try to apprehend criminals. Let’s brand police as murderers. But wait, there’s more. Innocent patients have died from teh actions of physicians. Doctors are murderers, too. And you know what else? Sometimes innocent people get killed by other innocent people. Innocent people are murderers, too! O! the horror. Where will it all end?
This obviously calls for a new bumper sticker.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
Go ask a person who bleed for you for his pardon.
Do you really think that this is what you were saying? Hardly! Your post is clear in the feeling that a soldier actions are malacious! Nobody would deny that civilians are victims of war, but you seem to think that soldier derive some perverse pleasure from it!
Obviously from this and other posts (Deaf self defense, stabbing people with invisible knives) you are a pacifist knob who feels guilty that you have violence in your heart along with everybody else, and take it out verbally on people who are capable of confronting this fact and either use it to their advantage or as a matter of duty.
You clearly feel considerable hostility towards people who use violent means for:
- self defense
- defending ideals
- their nation from perceived or real threats
The fact is you seem completely incapable of seperating violence which is sought out and violence which serves a sad and tragic purpose.
Why don’t you go back to stabbing people in the back with invisible knives (a clear indication of the violence in your own heart)?
Glitch, read some stuff by Susan Brownmiller.
I want to see a handy v. Atreal steel cage match.
Or pistols at 10 paces.
handy, I got a real nifty bachelor’s and am a year (or so) shy of a master’s;
a great job; good ship; a lot of young kids around which keeps me young; have been to 32 countries; and get an adequate pay check.
I never had to kill anyone.
And someone has to be willing to fight (and kill) so you can feel the way you do.
::shrugs and looks out at the ocean::
I’m not really going to respond to this Chief. This isn’t the Pit, and I’d have trouble keeping it in an acceptably clean format. Besides, it’s no use trying to change someone’s mind when they don’t really use it.
Several things to consider:
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LA isn’t the only state that has a ‘free-college-for-guardsmen’ deal. Hawaii and some other states do as well. Usually states that don’t get a lot of Guard recruits due to the fact that they don’t have big military bases offer big incentives to join (college tuition, free license plates, et. al.).
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I remember the day at Fort Jackson when a young trooper told the drill sgt. that he wanted out because his recruiter had lied to him. The sgt. asked the platoon ‘Who here had their recruiter lie to them’? All hands went up. Usually they aren’t full-on lies, just little things left out, half-truthsfun stuff like that. Think of recruiters kind of like used car salesmen-there are some straight-up honest good people out there, but there are some snake-oil peddlers, too.
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The Guard offered me 40K for college, for signing up for eight years. I never collected it, because the paperwork was insane. I always ended up with ‘last year’s forms’ somehow…
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The military obviously isn’t for folks that don’t want to be in the military. For the more peaceful, there are all sorts of grants and stuff. Don’t be miserable for several years for a few thousand dollars-it isn’t worth it.
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Doing time as an enlisted person and then going to ROTC is a sweet-and-sour thing. I did it. I got really tired of those ‘never been there’ armchair general cadets telling me how to wear my uniform, and so on. However, pulling an ROTC stipend, getting paid as an E-5 by my Guard unit, and the like kind of made up for it. Never could get them to march in time, tho…lol.
If the person who originally asked just needs cash, go for grants, loans, that type of stuff. However, if they are interested in the military, I personally think it’s a positive experience for a young person. Just make sure to read the fine print!
Good luck!
-dd
From Hell’s heart, I stab at thee-