Yeah, I had to think about it for a few seconds but that’s the only way the dilemma exists.
I’m in suburban Chicago, as well; I’m not sure that I’d say I see rolling stops 90% of the time, but I sure do see a lot of people not come to a complete stop. I also see drivers just roll through stop signs often enough that it’s led me to become more cautious about any sort of assumption as to whether the other driver will follow the traffic rules at an intersection.
Ironically, or maybe somewhat expectedly? I live in one of the police/city worker neighborhoods. I didn’t actually mean suburbs. I don’t know why I typed suburbs except for lack of sleep.
There are rules for this sort of thing. It doesn’t solve every possibility, but there is a right answer here for most situations.
I like the 4-way simultaneous stop rule. Uh, just let the most aggressive driver go ahead and go.
Absolutely true. In actual practice, my experience is that a significant percentage of drivers out there either (a) are unaware of these rules, or (b) choose to ignore them. I see every one of the rules on that list violated on a regular basis.
Completely agree. I’ve always remembered the “person on the right has the right of way” from Drivers Ed in High School. Not sure why it’s stuck with me, but I’ve actually had this discussion multiple times with friends and family. There’s 2 obvious challenges here even for those who might know or learn the rule.
- It’s not immediately intuitive that the person on my right cannot simultaneously be on the other person’s right.
- When you factor in pedestrians and very busy intersections these rules tend to become impractical.
For the latter, there’s a couple unwritten rules that make everyone’s life a little easier. If another car with the right of way is stuck waiting for a pedestrian to cross, you can skip him and go through the intersection if it’s safe for you to do so. If the car with the right of way is going straight and you’re opposite him and also going straight you can go through at the same time even if it’s not yet your turn.
All of this breaks down entirely when people aren’t paying attention and are unaware of right of way ordering (common), when not all drivers present know these rules (assumed to always be true) and when people are just assholes (sadly an epidemic).
Footnote: If you have the right of way but still sit there waving other drivers to go, you’re an asshole too. Your fake politeness is just confusing everyone and making it seem like rules don’t matter.
An epidemic which, IMO, seems to have become worse since COVID began.
Lawdy, yes. The rules of the road work because one assumes that everyone follows them; the “courteous yielder” is just as unpredictable (and as likely to cause an accident, though for different reasons) as the jerk who runs stop signs.
I am not very confident in driving, since I have little experience. Since we both must be turning right, I don’t remember who has the right of way, so I likely wait a bit longer than they do, which results in them going first. The exception is if I see them do that little handwave motion (which is probably what I should do). Then I trust them.
Or lack thereof.
In the instance of the OP, I would gesture for them to go first.
Left turn or right turn? What vehicle am I driving? What is the other person driving?
If I’m making a right turn, I’m totally not worrying about the other driver unless they’re making a left turn and are barrelling into the intersection with no sign of obeying the 4 way stop sign.
If I’m making a left and the other driver is making a right, they’re going first unless they just sit there, in which case I’m proceeding at < 15 mph until my car’s nose is pointed down the destination highway.
If we’re both making lefts, or at least that’s the signal that’s blinking, if I’m driving my old 1965 Pontiac, I’m trusting and turning. If I head a BONK sound, I will assume that the other driver plowed into me instead of turning, and I will park and get out and see if anything remains of their vehicle and its living contents. I won’t be able to notice any additional dents or blemishes in the Pontiac’s paint job, such as it is.
If other driver is driving something heavier and more formidable than the Pontiac, let’s say for example a Peterbilt cab with trailer, if they came to a stop they aren’t gonna get going fast enough to be a concern as I make my left.
Now, if I’m driving an '06 Mitsubishi or a '19 Infiniti, I’m going to take more care not be be in front of wherever they’re going if there’s much possibility of them shooting through despite a blinking turn signal. Wait to see that they stopped. Proceed into intersection but without angling the steering wheel, watching to see how fast they accelerate into intersection. Keep my own speed down. Take fewer chances. etc.
I always make sure that we don’t get there simultaneously, even if it means me creeping up. Since they stopped first, they get to go first. Easy.
Nope: it’s a three- or four-way junction, but there’s no additional space to drive round a circle.
So really it’s like a three/four way stop.
However, the signage, and the dot on the road, tells the intelligent British driver that ‘roundabout rules’ apply, i.e. you give way to the vehicle already in the system. That will be the vehicle to your right.
But we drive on the left of the road.
I guess the rules on our roundabouts are the reverse of US traffic circles?
No. Four-way stops are different from roundabouts. In a roundabout you yield to the vehicle already in the roundabout - i.e., in North America the vehicle to your left.
Vehicle to the right has right of way is a rule pertaining to uncontrolled intersections. When two vehicles are approaching an intersection with no lights or signs, the vehicle to the right has right of way. This rule is also used as a tie-beaker at 3- or 4-way stops.
This is me. If I see other cars approaching, I slow way down to make sure they get there first.
There is a similar situation near me, not a stop sign but a signal light on a smaller road crossing a bigger road. Cars opposite me will start at the same time I do. There is a right turn lane on the smaller street, so them turning right is usually not an issue. If they signal turning left - and I always am turning left here - we both creep out, start the turn and all is fine. If they are not signalling I creep into the intersection and wait to see what they are doing, since I definitely don’t trust them to be going straight. Usually, not always, they will sit there for a minute with no blinker on, and only turn it on just before they turn, as if they think the wheel won’t turn left without the blinker running.
No worries about running this light - that would be suicidal.
I live across the street from an elementary school, and there is a stop sign for a 3-way intersection I can see from my kitchen window. People never stopped. Until that is they redid the intersection to make it very confusing and impossible to just roll through, now people stop most of the time.
When I lived in NJ people stopped in my town, but it was a small town and you’d probably know the person you ran into.
In theory, 4 cars can arrive at a roundabout at the same moment from 4 different directions, and all 4 of them can drive through it without stopping.
Indeed, that’s the point.
The second part of this isn’t necessarily true and it catches people out. If the driver on your right has entered the roundabout first, then you have to yield to them (as per the first part of your paragraph). This tends to come up when the vehicle on the right is slow moving and the vehicle on the left is fast. I’ve seen cases of the first (right) vehicle being bullied through the roundabout by the second (left) vehicle because the driver of the second vehicle felt they could be going as fast as they like and the other vehicle had to yield.
They have to be paved?