Arrogant Attorney Asshats

[Polerius]

@Noel_Prosequi

I have just finished the most recent round of a fight I have been having for the last 5 years or so with an autodidact forensic scientist/DNA expert. It has been wearing, to say the least.

I guess autodidacts aren’t as easily defeated by professionals after all

[scout1222]

I have it on good authority via other sources that she passed.

[Elysian]

I did pass I am licensed in Montana now!

[Hilarity_N.Suze]

@Northern_Piper

That’s right - at a major law library like UCLA, I think we can assume that many of the reference librarians will be highly trained professionals, often with both a JD (or LL.B) and a Master of Library Sciences. They will be very good at helping a client find all the law related to a particular issue. But they won’t comment on the merits of the issue that a person asks them to help research, because that’s not their professional competence or responsibility.

I know we’ve got librarians on this Board, so maybe some of them could comment on the professional responsibilities of reference librarians in this type of situation.

I meant to hammer the point that, if they didn’t know about the case with the brown bunny with sausage on its head–or whatever it was–that situation probably had never come up.

[Hilarity_N.Suze]

@Northern_Piper

I know we’ve got librarians on this Board, so maybe some of them could comment on the professional responsibilities of reference librarians in this type of situation.

Here’s what one law librarian had to say: (the golfer had asked if there was a document he could get declaring himself “judgment proof.”)

@Mary Whisner

In our Reference Department, we—like most law librarians—**steer clear of interpreting or explaining the law **to public patrons. Instead we help them use the library and other resources. So while I did tell the golfer that I had never heard of such a proceeding, I also told him he was welcome to come to the library to do some research of his own on the question. To that he asked if there was someone at the library **who could advise him on the **law. “No,” I answered, repeating that he was welcome to use the library. I said I was not sure what he would be able to find, but I could give him some ideas. First, he should look in a law dictionary, and I confirmed that Black’s Law Dictionary had an entry. I flipped through the index to the Revised Code of Washington and told him that there was no entry for “judgment-proof,” but there were about three pages of entries under “judgments” and he might find something of interest there. He might also try a legal encyclopedia…91 Law Libr. J. 413–16 (1999)

(IANALL)

[Shodan]

@Elysian

I did pass I am licensed in Montana now!

Congratulations!

Now I have this friend who is suing somebody, and all lawyers are scum-sucking bastards who won’t work for free.

Not that I am asking for advice, mind you…

Regards,
Shodan

[TokyoBayer]

[threadshitting]
Fuck you. Fuck you, you miserable piece of shit. The acquaintance of a friend who sucked an irreplaceable hour of my holiday. An hour which should have been spend singing nursery rhymes to my daughter.

You fucking lied. You said you “just wanted something read in English which you didn’t understand.” You pretended it was just a little thing and we could meet for lunch and chat, and I could just tell you what was written. You talked like it was just something trivial. You waited until after we order to throw your little bomb.

It was a fucking seven-page rejection of a US patent application which you’re trying to file on your own. I’m not an attorney. I don’t know shit about patents. Fuck me for being a nice guy about it and helping you anyway. If it weren’t my local spot, I would have just walked out of there.

I spent four years getting my engineering degree and 20 years learning Japanese. So, I could actually understand what the fuck the rejection letter was saying and I gave you a professional translator’s quick narrative for the cost of cheap lunch.

And fuck you for dissing Taiwan just because you’re Chinese and you think you’re superior to everyone else. You know my wife is Taiwanese but that didn’t stop you from slighting her country.

So you demand my expertise for free, diss my wife and wonder why I finally told you to fuck off and not call me again.
[/threadshitting]

[Gfactor]

@Elysian

I did pass I am licensed in Montana now!

Congratulations.

[Northern_Piper]

@Polerius

@Noel Prosequi

I have just finished the most recent round of a fight I have been having for the last 5 years or so with an autodidact forensic scientist/DNA expert. It has been wearing, to say the least.

I guess autodidacts aren’t as easily defeated by professionals after all

They tend to be very persistent, very wearing, and very unsuccessful.

[Northern_Piper]

@Elysian

I did pass I am licensed in Montana now!

Congratulations!

[Northern_Piper]

Gfactor - thanks for those links - this very issue has come up in a discussion - very helpful.

[Gfactor]

@Northern_Piper

Gfactor - thanks for those links - this very issue has come up in a discussion - very helpful.

I’m here all week. Seriously, no problem. I’ve got other stuff, if you need more, but most isn’t linkable.

G

[Caffeine.addict]

@Gfactor

Which subjects the lawyer to direct liability for signing the pleadings, possible contempt for not showing up at hearings, and ethical problems (and possible contempt) for fraud on the court. But yes, you are correct, ghostwriting itself would be the opposite of what’s been described.

Also, once you are in a case, and have made an appearance in it, you are counsel of record, and you can’t get out without withdrawing which usually involves leave of Court.

I think as an attorney, I would be extremely hesitant to sign my name on a pleading that was prepared by the client, especially without spending a large amount of time reviewing the pleading, checking the case citations, and shephardizing them as well. I think that even if you are operating as local counsel for someone, you should do the same, as you may be liable as well in terms of legal malpractice.

[Gfactor]

@Caffeine.addict

Also, once you are in a case, and have made an appearance in it, you are counsel of record, and you can’t get out without withdrawing which usually involves leave of Court.

Absolutely. That’s why I always refuse when someone asks me to “just file this one thing” for them. Once you are in, you are in, and the judge isn’t bound by any sort of limited appearance agreement.

I think as an attorney, I would be extremely hesitant to sign my name on a pleading that was prepared by the client, especially without spending a large amount of time reviewing the pleading, checking the case citations, and shephardizing them as well. I think that even if you are operating as local counsel for someone, you should do the same, as you may be liable as well in terms of legal malpractice.

Absolutely.

[Elysian]

Thank you all for the congrats

I think the OP has left the field.

[Northern_Piper]

@Jodi

@Spoons

Just a friendly word: the term is not “cross check to see if the decision was overruled.” It is simply, “note up the decision.”

I’ve never heard “note up the decision” here in the States. Down here, it’s called shepardizing…

Looks like “noting up a case” is a Commonwealth legal term - Googling it gets hits from Canada, Australia and the U.K., all in the sense used by Spoons.

See also this legal research primer from the U. of Toronto Bora Laskin Law Library on Noting up Case Law.

[Malthus]

@Northern_Piper

Looks like “noting up a case” is a Commonwealth legal term - Googling it gets hits from Canada, Australia and the U.K., all in the sense used by Spoons.

See also this legal research primer from the U. of Toronto Bora Laskin Law Library on Noting up Case Law.

I can certainly confirm that “noting up” is the term used in Canada. When I first heard an American colleague using the term “Sherpardizing” I had no clue what he was talking about.

[Jodi]

@Elysian

Thank you all for the congrats

Just adding mine as well – well done, from another Montana lawyer (well, used to be in Montana).

[Bearflag70]

That’s for sharing info on unbundling. About 4 years ago, I read a number of articles on how great the concept of unbundling is (including ghost writing) and now it looks like the system is frowning on it. Interesting.

[Bearflag70]

@Bearflag70

That’s for sharing info on unbundling. About 4 years ago, I read a number of articles on how great the concept of unbundling is (including ghost writing) and now it looks like the system is frowning on it. Interesting.

*Thanks

Also, thanks to a sidebar with Gfactor it looks like unbundling in California state court is less precarious than in other courts and jurisdictions.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/rules/index.cfm?title=three&linkid=rule3_35

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/rules/index.cfm?title=three&linkid=rule3_36

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/rules/index.cfm?title=three&linkid=rule3_37

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/mc950.pdf

Carry on with the flame war.