Artifacts from the Titanic

I respectfully disagree. If someone wants to do something within their legal rights, whether or not I approve is irrelevant.

Whose property rights are being violated?
What harm is being inflicted on whom, other than some sense of unease?
What aspect of whose life is significantly different depending on what is or isn’t done with the wreck?
And what pricetag do you put on your choice and who foots the bill?

The only difference between the Titanic and another ship is that the attempts salvage attempts are more widely publicized, so much more people are aware of it and have an opinion about what should or shouldn’t be done. But the idea that shipwreck are collective grave isn’t new, and this issue appeared in other cases.

Concerning my personnal opinion, I don’t think it makes any difference whether there has been many victims or not. I would think the same about a little ship. If there’s no practical reason (for instance because it’s important to know why it sunk or because it’s a danger for navigation), it should be left alone IMO.

The only important factor for me would be how old is the wreck. See in a post above the comparison with archeology and graves. And even inthis case, there are reasons to explore the grave. Archeologists don’t dig up tombs without reason but because they can learn something by doing so.

That’s your opinion. Mine in different. You’ll never see a human skull on display on my bookshelves, for instance. Believing that human remains must be respected is pretty much universal. I happen to share this feeling of respect. The grave itself (in this case the wreck) has a strong symbolic value. Whatever could be your opinion, a lot of people, and even more so those people who had emotionnal ties with the deceased person, will be disturbed if a grave or wreck is excavated, especially if it is for profit.

Also, shipwrecks HAVE been excavated shortly after the events. The Empress of Ireland was only a week under water before the government blasted her hull to retrieve mail, and some government funds, IIRC.

Is the difference between grave-robbing and archeology largely whether anyone remembers or can identify closely with the people who were buried?

I.e., if it’s one’s grandmother, who one knew and can identify with, opening a grave is offensive.

If it’s someone 500 years dead, who no one recognizes as a relative, then opening the grave is not offensive, and archeology is ok.

Of course, there are cultures where any grave-digging at all is taboo. Some American Indian tribes come to mind…

It’s very relevant because we aren’t in a court of law but on a message board discussing whether the wreck should be salvaged/looted or not.

I honnestly don’t care. And anyway, the reason why the law prevent me from digging your grandfather’s grave and selling his webring isn’t really that you’re the legitimate owner of the terrain where he has been buried. It’s a more general ingrained concept about the respect of mortal remains which resulted in such laws. Nobody is harmed by necrophily or anthropophagy, either. Nevertheless these practices are banned.

Now, I could send back your questions : what harm is inflicted, whose property rights are being violated, etc… by NOT disturbing the wreck?

That’s a too general question. But it’s certainly not the only case were an abstract value could trump a monetary value. For instance, if I buy a historical monument, I won’t be allowed to torn it down, even if a 40 stores office building would make more money. You could ask the exact same question (what’s the pricetag and who foots the bill) in a lot of other situations. We humans happen to give a value to things which have objectively zero commercial value.

That’s essentially true. Though it’s quite usual to feel/display respect for human remains even when there’s no identification. For instance, when Ramses II mummy has been sent to France. to be “restored”, the protocol used for visiting head of states has been followed at the airport. Also, few people would give a human bone to their dog to play with, regardless where they found it. And of course human remains have a strong emotionnal and symbolic value since they’re a representation of death.

I don’t know what are the cultural beliefs of these tribes, but can’t they identify with the persons buried, in this case? Anyway, actually, I don’t think there are many cultures where grave-digging is totally neutral. I think it’s quite always somewhat taboo. In legends, digging graves, or even coming accidentaly in contact with mortal remains is generally dooming.