I had these thoughts that led me to this conclusion. That’s not to say I WILL trash the Earth – I can’t afford to trash much of it even if I want to.
But anyway…
I don’t believe the human race has a “purpose”. I don’t believe the human race has any inherent right to be the predominant species. I don’t believe I have a “purpose” other than to follow my will and judgement as best I can. Frankly, if I had to judge the worthiness of humans to have domain over the planet, we would get a thumbs down.
I have already decided I will have no children. I have even had surgery to enforce that.
So it doesn’t particularly bother me if humans of the present and future continue to poison themselves and squander the planet’s resources, to the point when our own species is no more. I will be long dead. I don’t believe in reincarnation. I don’t believe in punishment after life, and especially not for being an energy hog.
I don’t believe I have a debt to society. I have given society all that it has asked of me. I certainly have some debts to certain people, and not one of them would say to me, “I’ll forgive your debt if you buy a higher mileage car”. I will pay my debts in the coin demanded of me, and I will be very surprised if someone wants payment in crushed aluminum cans.
The only real incentive I have to be as energy efficient as I can is economics, so that I myself might live a more comfortable life. But we all know that with the economic system as it is, more often than not we benefit by being more wasteful. More indirectly, my own health might be marginally improved or my own life marginally lengthened if I and another billion or so people act in concert. What are the odds?
Now, if they come up with a practical form of immortality. or a drastically increased lifespan, then I will have some serious rethinking to do.
In the meantime, I feel a lovely sense of freedom.
Keep in mind that while the Earth and your nonexistent progeny are unlikely to care whether you flout any percieved obligation to them, if are sufficiently enthusiastic in rejecting your obligation to society, society might just bother to do something about it.
For example, you have a societal obligation not to shoot policemen. You might consider heeding that obligation, even if it’s a little inconvenient.
(And if society ever gets off its butt and decides to criminalize destruction of the environment, then you might consider heeding that too. I mean, we already have emission testing on our cars, so it’s clearly an inevitable slippery slope, right?)
Well do your parents have any children (besides yourself) that are still living who might reproduce. Do you care if you mess up their world? If you don’t care I think it may be good for you to look into the reason why.
Looking at the OP again it may be that you think your really can’t mess up the earth, no matter how hard you try, which I understand, in the grand scheme of things you won’t make any real difference.
Why does being an atheist make you more likely to trash the Earth ? It’s usually the Christian fundies who use their religious opinions to defend or encourage environmental destruction. Stuff like “The Rapture is coming ! There’s no need to worry about the environment !”, or “The Bible gave us stewardship of the Earth; that means that we are to use the Earth, and that means that Jesus will come again only when we’ve used up the Earth ! We’ve got to use everything up and wreck what we don’t use, fast !”
Given your premises, this is perfectly logical. It is also a perfect illustration of why we need to impose environmental regulation through legislation, in addition to just letting the market exert whatever incentives it has to inspire you to save money on energy use.
If we’re going to have “toddler citizens” (i.e., short-term-focused individualists who don’t feel any sense of personal obligation towards the society or environment that they live in, and who will do nothing for its benefit unless they’re forced to do it or immediately rewarded for it), then we have to have “nanny government”.
I entirely agree. I as a (currently childless) athiest feel that I have no obligation to the people of the future, and am perfectly fine to use up the resources and trash the Earth as per my whim.
Good then you won’t mind if I don’t get up from the couch when they come to put you in a boxcar. I’ll wait until it happens to someone who feels a sense of responsibility to the human race. As one who has no responsibility to the continuance of the species, you are expendable and irrelevant.
To the rest of the atheists on this board. If you do not share Boyo Jim’s nihilistic hedonism, then I might just be persuaded to get up off the couch when you are being treated unfairly for your views.
If you have a more developed, mature sense of the social contract, then that’s enough for me.
In all fairness there are plenty of Prosperity Christians who share a similar belief to Boyo Jim because they don’t care about ‘The World’. So I don’t think it has much to do with atheism, and more to do with being a self-centered ego-maniac.
That’s an interesting question. And it’s intersting that a Christian environmentalist movement has appeared in recent years – the whole “What would Jesus Drive?” SUV thing.
My point about the atheism is that I am content there is no greater “plan” that I’m supposed to be a part of, no obligations to a diety to fulfill, and no concern about the eternal consequences of my evil deeds.
It’s actually not all that out of left field. The more mature Christian realizes that stewardship of the Earth means that we have a responsibility to take care of it. Unfortunately Prosperity Christianity is a fairly pernicious heresy and suits the toddlerish tendencies of many Americans.
Why is that relevant? Do you not care about your fellow human beings and the fate of their children? I mean even from a Darwinian perspective, don’t you feel any loyalty to your own species? Don’t you want there to be a legacy of strength to leave to future generations? Where’s your team spirit?
That may be true – and I wondered when the social contract idea would appear. It is in many ways the humanist equivalent to the ten commandments, a rationale for pro-social behavior in the absense of a divine threat. Nothing so gauche as a list of course.
I can’t recall signing the social contract. No one even showed me a copy. I must say it’s a very useful construct, and I have in actuality live pretty much within its vague terms my entire life. But it IS a construct by my antecedents and contemporaries, and there is a continuing clash as to its terms.
One of its strongest clauses in recent years is the conflation between consumption and patriotism. I don’t bring this up as a justification for my own self-indulgent behavior, but rather as an example of how the social contract is as much a matter of religious belief as the bible. Maybe more so – at least the bible is written down so you can make some assessment of it. The social contract is whatever every individual thinks it is, and a great deal of time and effort are spent pushing clauses that serve vested interests.
I think that there are certain shared values that are rather clear within society. Rape and Murder for instance are fairly universally looked down upon in our society. We tend to have a pretty big respect for property rights. I’d say that due to the tremendous level of social cohesion in America, it’s fair to say that many people have little problem judging the social contract.
You are of course free to ignore the social contract, and we are of course free to eliminate you from its protections.
I think the point of view that you are espousing makes you something of a benign tumor. You are unlikely to violate the homeostasis of the society in which you live, but are not a normal cell because you do not share a cohesion with the whole. The survival and thriving of the overall species is not of paramount importance to you, that is a higher goal, a higher purpose devoid of any flowery theological language, and yet you reject that.
From that perpspective, we tolerate you as the biopsy is an unecessary procedure due to your benign status. The risks outweigh the rewards. Should you show a sign of going malignant, we’ll perform a biopsy and move on. There is of course a chance that you perform beneficial functions despite your rogue status, and that having kids may engender a newfound sense of social responsibility, in that case, I will give you a premature welcome to the human race, which may be redeemed upon your assimilation.
Until that point however, if you aren’t playing for the same team I see no reason to really respect or care about your existance. If you die alone, it is not tragic for you have made the choice to live alone.
I didn’t mean to suggest environmental christianity is out of left field. It would seem to me to be a far more reasonable interpretation of christian teachings than what you call prosperity christianity.
Well, it was tongue in cheek, but I am serious. I think that the survival and continued health of the species is a team goal. It’s something I care about. I have a daughter, and the act of breeding is an investment in the human race. I love my daughter, I will love her children, and how I manifest that love to them will hopefully have some positive impact on her children’s grandchildren.
I think that’s a fine way to state the question. Just existing is a goal in and of itself, something that requires a sustained effort and engagement. Something that we as individuals cannot as easily accomplish as a unified group can.
Your referral to your child is a validation of my claim – I am a childless atheist and I have no investment in the future. As I’ve thought about this, I’ve begun to realize it applies to other parts of my life as well. I don’t own a single stock, or a bond. I don’t have a savings account, or a retirement account. I own a piece of a home, and I have some small free life insurance through my employer. Enough to decently compensate someone for disposing of me when the time comes.
Right, and while you are not necessarily a productive member of society, you also do not represent a net drain upon its resources either, thus you are welcome to maintain residence within it. I fully encourage you to run naked through the streets if you like. Smoke all the pot you want to, fuck your way from Paris to Bankok, but if you ever rape my daughter, I’ll pay the Aryans in prison to take a special interest in you.
