Ashamed of being an American?

We’re in bed with some sketchy people, we’re spying on our own citizens, and… Trump and his backers.

Anyone not particularly proud to be an American? Anyone ashamed? How long have you felt that way?

Apologetic maybe, but not ashamed.
I haven’t traveled abroad since Trump was elected, but if I did, I’d probably wear a shirt that says: “I didn’t vote for that fucker!” in large font.

I’ve traveled the world and met all sorts of people. One thing I’ve learned is that people are all just human everywhere you go.

Every country will have and has already had its day. There’s nothing more wrong with the US than most other places, and we’re still doing better than most.

But I do strongly hope that there’s a long, hard thunk after Trump gets out of office for how things need to change to make sure that we don’t end up here again.

Regrettably, the answers that most will float will be greater transparency and more direct democracy, which is just treating a burn with acid. I think the most that we can hope for is that, like Rome, it will take about as long to destroy everything as it took to build it all - which is a couple of centuries. Populism is too strong of a force and our species seems to be unable to resist it over the long term.

I think it’s daft to be ashamed of your country - you are not responsible for the action of a few individuals making bad decisions, and it doesn’t mean the whole nation as gone bad.

I’m British and am disgusted about Brexit, and disheartened that so many of my fellow citizens are so deluded into thinking it’s a good idea, but that in no way means I’m ashamed to be British. There’s still plenty of on my side, as there are plenty of Americans who loathe Trump, and everyone knows that.

Wish that standard was used for muslims.:rolleyes:

Yep. We’re going to London in the fall, and I suggested that I could wear a burqa to keep people from noticing we’re Americans. Husband threatened to wear a MAGA hat.

Of course I’m not ashamed to be an American. So, we elected a bad president. Hopefully, we vote him out in 2020, and at the very latest, he’s gone in 2024 in any event.

Look around the world. America is still a great country. What happened in our country isn’t unheard of, when you consider that demagogues tend to rise after gigantic recessions. It was obvious that the right-wing started to radicalize in 2009, and Trump was the outcome of that.

There are also bad things going on in EU countries, too.

How far back do you have to go to find a time when these were not true?

I wasn’t proud of being an American before, am not ashamed now. Where I happened to be born has no influence on my self-esteem. I don’t influence the actions of our government to any appreciable extent. It would be like a drop of water being proud of being part of an ocean.

I guess that nationalism thing got left out of my genes.

No, not ashamed at all. Possibly different from me as my family immigrated here when I was a baby. I am proud of some of the accomplishments of the US throughout it’s history and am happy to be an American citizen. I’m disappointed in many things about the US, both historical and today, but I think the US is constantly changing…sometimes for the good, sometimes not, but always in motion. It gives me hope that change will happen down the road. Our political system has always been weird and more than slightly dysfunctional, but I like the great pendulum imagery…things more one way then they start to move the other, reach a center position before going back off the rails for a while in the other direction…but always swinging back through the center eventually. And that center is constantly in flux in the US…what is center today wasn’t 50 years ago, nor will it be 50 years from now.

I want to see this country do great things…finally fix it’s seemingly endless issue with race, especially with our black population. I think if we can ever fix that it will be a huge step forward for the nation. I want the US to push the envelop on technology and to take a leadership role in human exploration of the solar system with another step forward…a large manned mission to Mars, a lunar base similar to the one we have on Antarctica and proof of concept for in situ resource gathering and perhaps resource exploitation of NEO to start with. So many things I’d like to see us do…and stop doing. But no, not ashamed.

I didn’t do any of that stuff. Why should I be ashamed?

You’re just being narcissistic, which is ironically a very American attitude to have - you should be ashamed :slight_smile: The US is a major power and unfortunately major powers tend to want to stick their nose in all sorts of places which leads to all sorts of nastiness. Our news cycle tends to blow things out of proportion too. When really has the US ever been the ‘shining beacon on the hill’ that it purports to be? Or for that matter, why not pick any country and tell me how clean its hands are? As is typical though, Americans aren’t actually aware of what’s really happening anywhere else and there’s a great deal of Europhilia among the left that makes it so that we lionize western Europe without actually asking whether we should. There really aren’t any paradises on earth, unfortunately, just different shades and degrees of nastiness.

So, should we be ashamed? I don’t think so. Should we try to do better? Definitely. This administration is probably going to go down in history as one of the worst in the last 100 years, but that also means that we’ve had 96 years where we were better and really, this administration -though horrible- isn’t as bad as we want to make it out to be. Don’t get me wrong, it’s bad, but the apocalyptic rhetoric is unwarranted.

It was wonderful traveling in the Caribbean right after Obama was elected. People hugged us and talked about what a wonderful future we faced.

Travel after Trump has been an embarrassment. No talk of politics. TVs tuned to infomercials rather than news stations.

This is like being ashamed of your wife because she got a bad haircut. The US has done so much for the world and humanity in general that it is crazy to be ashamed of the country because of a bad person is president. We have had worse presidents and yet managed to still be a force for good in the world.

<post doorhinged>


No, but somewhat less proud.

I think the US may or may not have had worse governments as a whole - I don’t know that but wouldn’t be surprised either way - but there are VERY few individuals I can imagine being worse presidents if by some magic they were elected. The kind of mental disorder that Trump has, does unfortunately make a person unfit for any kind of management position due to the way they treat the people they work with. (Not that they don’t end up in such jobs - certainly they do - doesn’t make it OK.)


After a somewhat unpleasant altercation during a recent trip to London, a business colleague resignedly opined that it would have been better to simply lie and say we were from Canada.

Ashamed to be an American? No, but I have to tell ya, since the rise of Trump it is certainly easier to be painted with the “stupid American” moniker and hear choral assent, and no, saying “I’m just taking the piss” afterward doesn’t lessen the sting.

Not really. But OTOH, I don’t want to have to put up with any bullshit because of it when I travel.

I’m traveling to Europe in a couple of weeks and my wife and I bought new, extra-large MOLLE backpacks. They came with velcro American flag patches. I bought a couple of Maryland flag patches to stick on them instead. We’re not lying about where we’re from, but I doubt many people in Portugal or Germany are going to know what that is.

I’ve never been proud of my country - I’m not the nationalistic type. Even if the country is awesome I can’t claim credit for anything awesome about it so why would I be proud? And of course that goes the other way as well: I’m not ashamed of things that people who aren’t me do. Why should I be?