Ashamed of being an American?

This question is an error. White folks are incapable of feeling shame because white folks worship at the altar of individualism. White folk rapidly flip-flop between “We are individuals, you will not look at us as a group” to “You are apart of the minority group, we will look at you as individuals”. That in itself is the power of whiteness that muddies the water and keeps the status quo. James Baldwin spoke about this in his piece Letter from a Region in my Mind (1962).

The Maryland flag? They’re all going to assume it’s European but wonder which duchy it is.

Wilson was an intellectual who was widely admired as a progressive and as a peace-maker. Historians rank him #8 overall among all U.S. Presidents and near the very top for imagination and intelligence. He may have been very racist, but many of the Founding Fathers were slave-owners. FDR incarcerated Japanese but not Germans. Times change.

Donald Trump is a sociopathic criminal and buffoon. To compare him with Wilson is a severe insult, not only to Wilson but to all Americans with brains.

Who said Trump was racist, anyway? Trump is just a generic asshole who knows that racism appeals to the 38% of most hateful Americans who constitute his electoral base.

:smack:

That should read.

White folk rapidly flip-flop between “We are individuals, you will not look at us as a group” to "You are apart of the minority group, we will** not l**ook at you as individuals

We travel a lot, never ashamed and I refuse to engage when my Belgian cousins poke at me about American politics.

I’m too terrified to bother with shame.

Wouldn’t you say making a sweeping generalization about an entire race, and claiming an entire race of people is incapable of feeling shame (and thus is morally defective) is a bigoted line of thought?

Curious, if Trump is the worse option to Bush, who would be the worse option for Trump? David Duke?

Not all whites, just American whites. The British Europeans - the more enlightened version of yourselves -proclaimed today about Trump “You insult our country, attack our NHS, embarrass our Queen, undermine our ‘special relationship’, humiliate our PM…and then smugly pose in Winston Churchill’s armchair”. The white folks in Britain are in the street. Yes, white folks in the street. Can you believe it?These white folks ain’t havin’ it, and see right through the bullshit. It must be like having a country filled with 66 million Bill Mahers and John Olivers. I envy Europe now more than ever; I see why Baldwin (and many other African-Americans) fled there soon as they had the means to do so.

I love these British white folk.

Alright, so you’re basically trolling. Understood.

Exactly. Confusion is good. At the least, it’s a conversation starter.

Well, it kinda does. I mean, how did he get into office? President Trump is a man-made disaster. And it’s a disaster that Americans made, and nobody else.

I’ll put it this way: when I lived overseas in the early 2000s, I encountered anti-American sentiments on a somewhat regular basis. This was during the Iraq war era. At that time, I pushed back. I defended our country and countrymen, even though I made it clear that I was no fan of Bush.

But this country has run out of excuses. When it knowingly votes for an anti-immigration platform, knowingly votes for racism, knowingly votes for someone who tells lie after blatant lie, the country can no longer just say “Hey, that’s not our country, that’s just our government. We can fix it next election.” I think we are the problem.

He didn’t win the popular vote. If the raw vote of the majority of Americans counted he would’ve lost. But if we’re being honest there are factors which propelled him into the White House beyond racism and this idea of America being a bad country:

  1. Hillary Clinton being a poor campaigner who took certain elements of the electorate for granted; A Democratic campaign that was focused more on winning over moderate Republicans than by appealing to its base

  2. A bitterly contested Democratic primary which created a fissure in said party.

  3. 8 years of Obama creating incumbent fatigue.

  4. The Democratic candidate was under investigation by the FBI during the whole campaign

  5. The media focused on Trump, and you had genuine fake news scaring older people against the Dems.

Along with other mitigating factors. The fact is that the election was decided by three states. Another fact is that our populace at large is poorly educated and knows little about politics beyond personalities. Yet another fact is that besides the racism, Trump appealed to a sense of populism, a fatigue with the traditional dogmas of both parties. He ran as a Republican, but not as your traditional Reagan/Bush Republican. A portion of the country I think was tired of dynasties, and also tired of “politics as usual” and saw a guy who was a Washington outsider as a breath of fresh air, especially when contrasted with Hillary Clinton. And you had the Russian influence and Wikileaks to boot.

Basically I look at 2016 as an anomaly, a convergence of very special circumstances, a ratfucked election. I believe also that if the Democratic Party had nominated virtually any other person than Hillary, Trump would not have won.

If this country or its people were bad, we would’ve had President George Wallace in 1968, President Lyndon LaRouche in 88, President Pat Buchanan in 92, etc. Trump’s election is an anomaly. And the fact that over 60% of our people disapprove of him speaks to our goodness as a nation.

I would agree, but this is not an excuse. The 60+ million people who voted for Trump and the millions of others who either voted third party or not at all have access to Google. Americans are just an incurious, intellectually lazy lot.

So what? The racism is what separated Trump from his Republican rivals, save Ted Cruz, who similarly engaged Islamophobia.

This country was essentially founded on white supremacy. Early American capitalism depended on it. It’s true that England and European powers once had colonialism and systems of slavery and exploitation, but they have since addressed the issues of social and economic justice better than we have as a society.

You invade countries under false pretenses then have the citizens of that country tortured. You kidnap children and put them in internment camps with no means or intent to return them to their parents. Your cops kill black people with impunity. You shoot each other en masse constantly. Your country is bad.

Again, I think the election came down to a myriad of factors that can’t just easily be summed up as “America bad.” The millions who voted third party I can respect for their moral conviction. But we do have a problem in this country with anti-intellectualism, I agree with that. It’s a deep seated problem, too. Americans since at least the 50s have increasingly only looked at superficial qualities in candidates. Part of why we haven’t had a bald President since Eisenhower.

The racism, but also the economic populism separated Trump from his peers in the primary. Remember, besides Mexico, a big part of his campaign was centered around how bad the TPP and NAFTA were for the American worker; about the ‘forgotten Americans’ who were being left behind in a global economy which was becoming increasingly focused on automation; he made promises to the coal miners and other such people that could never be kept, but which they wanted to hear. He talked about having things be manufactured in America again, bringing factories back. There are a lot of people who have been left behind in the last few decades who I believe were reeled in by that. Hillary making gaffes like saying we’re gonna put coal miners out of their jobs didn’t help (even though this isn’t what she meant, it was taken out of context by the media and used against her). Her image as an ivory tower elitist Democrat who only had power because of her husband - an image created and fostered by nearly three decades of right wing media and conspiracies, as well as her own personality, didn’t help. The perception that she stole her nomination from Bernie Sanders also didn’t help. The perception of Hillary as being in ill health, fed by the right wing but also fueled by her recurring coughing fits and her collapsing on 9/11 didn’t help.

Also, Trump was out there, campaigning. Holding rallies. Getting in touch with the people. It seemed like he was holding a rally every week. Hillary went for an entire month without any major speeches. Meanwhile, Trump dominated the news.

And yes, I agree that other countries handled social issues better than we have, but other countries are smaller than us, dealing with a less diverse and more easily focused people, and other countries don’t have the handicap we do, which is the South. Also, other countries don’t have a rampart right wing media apparatus poisoning the well of debate and twisting facts without penalty; we do ever since the end of the Fairness Doctrine.

I think you should switch off the news and actually visit here sometime. The way you make it sound, you’d think there’s a war going on here. It’s actually quite nice here. Yeah, we have problems with racism. But the media blows a lot of it out of proportion for ratings. Sensationalism sells. We also have a leader who has issues with Mexicans. He’ll be out in 2 years. I love my country. I won’t deny she has more than her share of flaws. But I’m not condemning her either.

I am.

Your problems won’t go away when Trump does, he’s just a symptom. You’ll still have the people who voted for him, you’ll still have a party full of his enablers who want to see you suffer and poison you for the sake of even more money.

His supporters are mainly old people, and all due respect to the elderly, but when they die, a lot of the poison will die with them. Give it ten, twenty years and you’ll see a very different GOP. Demographics are changing. Hispanics, and Hispanic/White mixes will make up the new majority. Millenials and Gen Z are projected to be more left wing in both parties. Hispanics aren’t going to mistreat Mexicans, nor will they mistreat Whites or Blacks as most Hispanics have a bit of both in them. As such, racism will fade. Trump is not so much a symptom as he is the last, desperate gasp of older WASP people afraid of the future, who want to destroy the country and drink Liberal tears rather than accept the fact that they’re losing, that they’re dying out, that people are done with Evangelical Christianity and homophobia. They realize they lost the culture wars, and like children having a fit, they’d prefer to burn down this country than accept defeat.

My only wish is that the next generation was more Liberal and less Socialistic. But that’s neither here nor there.