Asian

In My Humble Opinion
21

One of my former Russian Dinner regulars was an ethnic Russian, from Khabarovsk on the Pacific coast. He always listed himself as Asian on bureaucratic forms where race was requested. His point: “hey, Siberia is part of Asia, and my family has been there for hundreds of years. I’m as Asian as anybody!”

I think the point about the bulk of early immigration to the U.S. from Asia being from East Asia is quite valid in terms of American perceptions about who is Asian (in contrast to the U.K. experience). Although Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc. weren’t racially eligible to naturalize until the early 50s, I believe Indians, Pakistanis, etc. were in a separate category. (I’ll have to check that at work tomorrow, though, in the case law database.). And I doubt there was a high enough concentration of Southeast Asians in the U.S. until after the Vietnam War that it would even have been an issue.

Immigration from the Subcontinent has certainly ratcheted up in the past couple of decades, which will probably influence the American view down the line.

22

Oh, and how many Americans have ever even met a Kazak, Uzbek, Turkmen, or Afghan? Central Asia is largely a mystery to most Americans in terms of personal experience, although I think that will change, too.

23

Well, how many of any nationality have met a Kazakh, Uzbek or Turkmen (we’ve lots of Afghan refugees in India)??!

24

I’ve met all of the above except a Turkmen, but then I put myself in situations where it’s likely (running a monthly dinner for Russian speakers, going to grad school at one of the few places in the world that offers degrees in Central Eurasian Studies, having friends who work in refugee resettlement).

There is actually even an Afghan restaurant in Skokie, IL (a suburb a few miles from here in Chicago). There used to be 2, but one closed. There are a few Central Asians banging around the U.S. now on Fulbrights; there were a bunch in the School of Public and Environmental Affairs at my grad school (Indiana U.), and a few more in the Business School. Some were on Fulbrights, and one of my classmates was on a Kazakh government fellowship. I always felt sorry for them; southern Indiana isn’t exactly the pinnacle of ethnic diversity, and they probably got sick of explaining to the typical Big Ten undergrads in their liberal arts classes where they were from. My former roommate from studying in Leningrad, a Kazakh, taught Arabic lit for a semester in Kentucky. I’m sure it was an eye-opener for her.

25

I’m sure we’ve all heard of Yul Brynner (and some may remember the Olympic gymnast Nellie Kim). It seems strange to me that anyone can have overlooked that Russians can be Asian too.

26

I’m met quite a few Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and Mongols around here. I’ve also met a people from Kyrgyzstan, and a few Uyghur. There aren’t that many in the States, but there are quite a few.

27

Actually I’ve met a Mongol too - he ran a restaurant here for a few years before finally shutting it down.

Mongolia is one of the countries I’d like to visit sometime in my life…

28

As everyone has said, the term “Asian” carries with it certain ideas of geography, ethnicity, and culture in the US, and in Canada too. Mostly when people use it they’re referring to East Asia, but nowadays Southeast Asia also gets into it. Again, as others have said, this phenomenon mostly came about because of differing immigration patterns in the US and the UK.

I also remember reading a paper about Japanese ideas of “Asian.” As I recall, to the Japanese, Asian equals Buddhist-influenced. China, Taiwan, Mongolia, Korea, and Thailand are Asian. I’m not sure what they think about India or Vietnam, or the other mainland Southeast Asian countries, but the Japanese certainly don’t consider Malaysia, Indonesia, or the Philippines to be culturally Asian. And as far as they’re concerned, Europe begins at Vladivostok, despite it being physically closer to Beijing than to Moscow or Paris.

Incidentally, the term Southeast Asia only came into popular usage during the Vietnam War. I think it was only used by geographers before that, but not by all of them. There are some examples of its use in WWII. I vaguely recall reading about the the Southeast Asia Command led by the British in Burma, though that probably wasn’t its exact name. Damn, I wish my Paul Kennedy book was around here.

29

I meant to say, “There are some examples of its use in WWII, though.”

30

Model Irina Pantaeva is also Siberian.

31

Well, I met a family (and went to elementry school with one of their daughters) from Afghanistan, who came to the US during the 1980’s. And this was in a small Podunk rural town in Minnesoda.

32

I hope they do think of India as Buddhist-influenced given that he was born there. Also, Malaysia is on the mainland.

33

A bit of background first: I’m a mostly mutt, part Hispanic, part Native American (which tribe, I don’t know). My uncle is a Vietnam veteran who married a Vietnamese woman and helped her extended family move to America, so through him I have a great many Vietnamese relations. I also live in the Pacific Northwest of the US, where there are a great number of so-called first-settler or Native American tribes: the Puyallup, the Nisqually, the Squaxin tribe, and so on. In this area, there are also a very large number of immigrants and students from Japan, China, Vietnam, et al. Lastly, in 1987 I took a month-long tour of China, Thailand, and Hong Kong while still in high school.

I might be one of the few who do this, but when I speak of people from Japan, China, Vietnam, Thailand, and Korea collectively, I usually say “East Asian.” If I know the nationality of the person, I’ll use the specific country. Having Vietnamese relatives has sharpened my ear for recognizing the accent, and helped my eye (I believe) to recognize some gross aspects of nationality. (The time spent in China and Thailand helps me know the difference somewhat, too.) But rather than make an assumption, I’ll often say “East Asian.”

The word “Oriental” is deprecated for PC reasons, as is the word “Indian” when used to refer to specific tribes. To use the word “Indian,” around here, invites confusion. Every time I use it I have to explain, no, not the Indians around here, those are Native Americans, I mean the ones from India, remember them?

The word “Russian” is also deprecated from long years of correction to “don’t you mean the Soviet Union?” But if I know the person is from Russia, I’ll say so. (Even now, the IMDb splits up its references to “Russian” and “Soviet” films.)

I worked for a long number of years as an engraver, and later as the bookkeeper of an engraving shop, so I had a lot of contact with the various Native American tribes as they requisitioned work. Oddly, while I was conditioned to call them “Native Americans,” they more often referred to themselves as the “Nisqually Indians.” Still, PC correction dies hard (and what to call the first settlers of North America is another topic).

So if you ask me, Americans don’t say “Oriental” because we’ve been trained that it’s offensive. We don’t say “Russian” because we’ve been trained to say Soviet, except now that the Soviet Union has broken up, we’re still not sure what to say. We don’t say “Indian” because of the first-settler population here, which is a nightmare of nomenclature the British don’t have to deal with. For most Americans, I’d guess “Asian” is the only thing left that doesn’t offend.

FISH

34

Yes, but Indians are on their own subcontinent, and Buddhists are only a drop in the bucket that is India, even though it’s where Buddhism originated. Just how Buddhist can someone say India is today?

And yes, half of Malaysia is on the mainland, but I put it in with the Philippines and Indonesia because its population is mostly Malay, same as them, and no reasonable person can claim they are Buddhist countries.

35

I guess you haven’t been to Malaysia. I have. It’s got lots and lots of Buddhism. Much of Kuala Lumpur is more Buddhist than Muslim. This is also true of Penang and Taiping.

36

Really? Okay, but a lot of foreigners don’t know that. And Japanese people probably assume it’s Muslim, too, which is what I was getting at originally. They don’t think of Malaysia as Buddhist, so they don’t feel any Asian kinship with it.

Jomo Mojo, is this just a phenomenon in the cities, or is the countryside also that way? How does Islam and Buddhism interact in that country? And do Malaysians celebrate Buddhist holidays?

Interesting, despite growing up in a neighbouring country, I know more about the United States than of Malaysia. It’s hardly even mentioned in school in the Philippines. I suppose this is just another of colonialism’s legacy.

37

Interesting topic. I have thought about this, but in different terms. As a Korean American, I have always wondered what was it about the Japanese that makes their culture so appealing to Americans.

I have a few theories:

Familiarity: We have veterans who have fought Japanese, Koreans, Chinese and Vietnamese people. Every single one of us has a Made in [Insert East Asian Country Here] product in their home or garage. Outside of watching Temple of Doom, I don’t think Americans think much about India. I believe that when more Indian made products start entering American homes that will change.

Immigration There needs to be more Indian immigrants. I remember when I was a kid, getting strange looks when I explained that I was Korean. “So which are you? Chinese or Japanese?”

Better Cultural Marketing There is something about Asian cultures that hold a lot of appeal for Mainstream America. Buffy the Vampire Slayer uses martial arts and Hong Kong style wire work. Most of the cartoons that are consumed are Japanimation or Anime style Korean animation. There is a vibrant sub-culture that eats up cult films like My Sassy Girl and Battle Royale. Meanwhile most people scratch there heads wondering why in the middle of a serious film topic you have Indians breaking out into an elaborate song and dance number

38

I wonder about that all the time!!

39

“Asians” is used mainly as an ethnic designator, refering to the group of peoples called Mongoloids. That’s because Mongoloids are supposeldy native to the continent, while others are migrants.

40

Used as an ethnic designator by whom? It what way is Molgoloid ethnic? “Asian” is used to refer to Indians, Arabs, Turks and many more people who are not necessarily Molgoloid and who have characteristic ethnicity.