Ask the Adult Child of a Hoarder/Clutterer

Our neighbor lady got like this–the hoarding. Her husband used to garden a lot, and my mom and he would exchange tips across the creek (the creek ran through our backyards). He died and we never had gotten to know the widow. Turns out she became a recluse, with bagged up trash and paper from floor to ceiling in every room. When she died, they gutted the inside of the house…

My sisters, perhaps #1 son, this neighbor, my inlaws (due to alcoholism, better now but still not great, say .5), my husband (still has his mother’s polka records–she’s alive and lives a mile from us. No idea how or why we got custody)… No wonder I’m paranoid about this–I seem to be surrounded by people for whom this is an issue.

I also love that UK show–and I think you’re right: the hardcore, truly “sick” people don’t do the show. Remember the one with the lady with the birds? Dear god, I about lost it. And the one with the slugs living on her carpet? Ugh…

I just returned from a holiday visit to my family. I live several hundred miles away from them and only get to the family home once every few years.

Anyway, my sister-in-law is a hoarder, big time. Every flat surface in the house is piled 4 feet high with junk, the kitchen is piled high with food and unwashed dishes and the only way to get through the house is through paths where the junk has been pushed aside. My real issue is that my niece and nephew ( ages 12 and 18) have to live in this mess and have grown up in it.

These two kids have been diagnosed at varying times with various combinations of learning disabilities,attention deficit disorders, clinical depression and borderline autism. They have lived there lives being thoroughly medicated, therapized and Al-Anoned. The state of the house is the 800 pound gorilla in the room, everyone clucks and says it’s horrible for the children to have to live like this but no one has made the connection between the kid’s ongoing psychological issues and their living conditions. The kids are embarrassed to have friends over and their mom tells them " If they are really your friends they won’t care" but she has here on list of who she can invite to the house and who she can’t.

In the meantime, my sister-in-law positions herself as some sort of saintly mom spending all her time and effort and understanding on her troubled children. My frustration with this knows no bounds.
The only bright spot is that she is soon to be my ex sister-in-law and my brother is living in my mom’s house and the children spend a lot of time there. Although I have other issues with the situation…such as my brother not working and my 82 yearold mother supporting him and the children on her fixed income, I was astonded at the amount of food they consumed in her house…at least the kids are out of the house more.

Barbara

Did y’all ever see the Oprah show with the hoarder? Oprah was so rude to her! She was classic - afraid to throw anything away, rotten strawberries on the kitchen table, dog poop in her bathroom and shower. Oprah got her a guy to help her start sorting her house, but I was appalled at Oprah’s treatment of her - it was so obvious she was ill. They brought the two British women who do “How Clean is Your House?” on that show, too.

I think that is what a lot of people think though, that these hoarders are lazy. They are clueless that this illness even exists.

Baby steps, baby, baby steps. Try a little bit, get a little upset, realize you can live with feeling a little upset, start to feel a little better, realize the world didn’t end when you threw out a pile of old papers, and build on that success. Best of luck to you.

I saw that one; it aired a couple of years ago. I think Oprah has learned a thing or two in the meantime, though. She had a hoarding lady on a couple of months ago–devoted two episodes to the situation–and seemed much more understanding of the woman’s pain. I hope so anyway.

That said, it’s sometimes hard even for me to extend sympathy to my aforementioned friend, though I do try awfully hard, because it’s been going on so long and she can’t even have her own friends over to her house as a result.

Another point: you can’t always tell a hoarder by looking at one, either. They can look very presentable, nicely dressed, makeup perfectly done, hair coiffed, hold down a good job, etc., and yet live in such squalid conditions that it would blow your mind.

It’s obvious by reading this thread I’m probably not in danger of becoming a serious hoarder/clutterer… but I can relate a lot to the perfectionism aspect. I tend to put off cleaning, and when I do, it wears me out so fast. It actually has psychological relevance, not just a bunch of rote tasks to be performed. I am easily overwhelmed by basic cleaning tasks, usually end up feeling bad about not getting more done… it’s so strange how something as basic as picking up around the house can manifest psychological issues.

Well, this thread has definitely inspired me. Today, for the first time since moving into this house (2-1/2 years ago), I sorted through my books and not only packed up 5 boxes to give away, but got the rest at least grouped by author/type. My bookcases look nice for the first time since I’ve lived here, and I’ve only kept books that I either reread occasionally or are from authors I love that are out of print.

Tomorrow the living room bookcase! And then there’s my sewing area…otherwise known as the the dining room. In my defense, I’ve cleaned/organized it three times in the last year and a half, but each time my dear hubby decides he needs some other area of the house clutter-free – so deals with it by dumping it in the dining room! Grr. I don’t mind dealing with my own clutter, but it’s frustrating to have him sabotage my efforts like that. Especially since he’s far, far neater than I am in the first place!

The only actual hoarders I’ve known were my sister’s in-laws. Astonishing amounts of junk. They had a large four bedroom house in a historic district that you could only enter one bedroom, the front hall and the kitchen.

When they died, they still had wedding presents from the sixties still wrapped up in their boxes. Some of it actually did end up being worth some money, but not enough to live that way.

I knew a family IRL who lived in stage 2 squalor, which became stage 3 shortly before they moved. They would pick at their food (on paper plates) until they’d taken the edge off their appetites, then leave the plates to fester. On HCIYH, I see a lot of food-laden plates as well. Basically, you’re reduced to takeout or one-step microwave meals, and you can only eat enough of that to sustain you because the house is so sick-making.

I actually had counseling for a year after I moved away from home. It helped at the time. Well, that, and living 600 miles away from my mother. Now that I see her several times a month, I should probably consider it again. On the other hand, wild pigs will come in and clean this house before I convince my husband that he’s got some sort of problem that requires counseling. As far as he is concerned, he’s just “saving our memories.”

If I didn’t know better I would say you have been in my mothers house.

Picture 12 is exactly like her kitchen counter. See those scissors in picture 8? Yeah don’t even think of touching them. She knows were they are. The only way they will move is if she needs them. They will be used and then placed in another local where you again better not touch them.

Even though the quality is bad they actually represent very well the mood of my mothers place. It is dark and bleak. She is hurt because I don’t visit.

I wish I could take pictures but she never leaves unless my daughter or I take her some place. Most of that time she is coming to my house. She does not even walk outside and get fresh air now and then. She only opens the door to let her dog out.

If I did manage to get some I would have to place them somewhere that I could hide, password protect and lock the pictures from being copied.

She is very internet savy and hosts her own website. I would say 90% of her time is spent on her computer and the internet. I know she would find them.

This is my mothers thinking as well. That is why she feels hurt that I don’t visit. I used to feel guilty about it.

For about four years I lived next door so she would venture out and come over at least four or five times a week. When I moved it upset her a great deal. I think she felt like I was part of her stuff. I felt like I did when I moved out at eighteen and she was mad at me for months.

She also reclaimed everything she had ever “let me borrow”. The electric skillet I borrowed three years earlier, the one she never used, she wanted that back. It sits on a chair in her kitchen where I placed it over two years ago. The same with a four cup coffee maker that she let me borrow on a camping trip. That to was reclaimed. When her coffee maker broke about a year ago I told her that at least she had the four cup one to use in the meantime. She stated it was upstairs so there was no way she could get it.

About a two years before I moved her fridge died and the slum lord stated he didn’t have one to replace it. At the I had one is storage so we got it out and put it in her apartment. I would have given her the one I had in my place as it was owned by the landlord and put mine in my apartment but the way it was built it had to come up and over a counter and was not worth all the hassle. It was easier to just stick it in her place.

When I was going to move I told her we would place the one from my apartment into hers and I wanted to take mine with us. The place we were moving did not have one. You would have thought I was ripping her first born from her arms. She got very upset and started crying. All over a refridgerator.

The way she reacted tells me with no doubts that anything I try to remove will cause the same reaction and I am sure that will turn to anger very quickly.

I hope you get the help you need. And I fear, unless you get your husband to go to counseling too, you will never get truly better.

It’s like when a married couple smokes and one wants to quit. (FIL and MIL, basically.) FIL always found ways to “sabotage” her attempt to quit, so she never did.

I have a sick sort of fascination when it comes to hoarders and those who live in squalor. My husband teases me for watching How Clean Is Your House? because it makes me shudder to see how these people live. I just don’t understand the mindset but this thread has been very enlightening. I admire the willingness of those of you who are struggling with this to be so open.

If anything, I’m the exact opposite. I don’t collect anything. Every six months or so I go through my bill statements and shred anything I consider out of date or no longer needed. Every time I’ve moved, I’ve gotten rid of stuff. I’ve finally realized that I don’t HAVE to hold onto books. The only ones I’m attached to are by favorite authors. About once a year, I go through my clothes and donate anything I haven’t worn for that year (or I can no longer fit into). My husband has a tendency to hold onto things but it’s not bad at all. It’s only a few items from his childhood (his graduation robe from 1978…I can’t get him to part with it so I’ve conceded defeat) so it’s in no way out of hand.

I can’t stand clutter. It makes me nervous, especially in the kitchen. I love a clean sink and can’t stand to have dirty dishes lingering. Dirty clothes go in the baskets. Laundry is done almost daily. I clean out the fridge on a regular basis. I guess you could say I’m pretty anal retentive. The only thing I’m lax about are the floors. I don’t like to use a mop because I feel like I’m just pushing dirty water around so I scrub the floor on hands and knees. But it’s getting more difficult, due to age and various injuries, and it leaves me sore for a few days afterwards. I do vacuum the floors but heavy duty scrubbing only happens once a month or so. It’s an area I can see getting out of hand if I’m not careful.

I’ve only been exposed to really messy people a few times in my life. One was a friend who had an aversion to putting away clean clothes. She’d just sort through everything that was lying on the floor and bed to find something to wear. Another was the mom of a friend. Her house was a wreck and she had chickens in cages in her filthy kitchen, among other things.

My mom used to get on my nerves with her cleaning and nagging us kids to do the same. Mondays were her cleaning days and heaven forbid you got in her way or didn’t do a little bit to help. But I’m glad she instilled in me the sense of pride in having a clean house. I just can’t imagine living any other way.

Heya Little Wing. I agree that the best way to get a floor clean is to get down on your hands and knees and ‘just do it’.

My MIL and FIL started to have problems with this, (knee replacements) so my Wife and I pay for a service to come in and do the kitchen and bathroom for them. It’s not that expensive.

My Wife does that.

My Mom and Dad are divorsed but corgial. My Dad does not clean or take out trash. My Mom spreads down sheets (just last week) in her garage to collect the snow dripping off her car.

Ummm…

Some how, I’ve turned out to be a pretty regular guy.

Yep, they really believe that objects serve as memory storage devices. Now, I can see hanging on to Grandpa’s WW2 medals, mom’s engagement ring, family heirlooms and such. But all that other stuff…
The friend I’ve been mentioning saves heaps of hotel toiletries because they apparently serve as reminders of every hotel she’s ever been to. I always thought we should just take photos and talk about the trips and remember our experiences that way; and I use up hotel toiletries quickly if I take any home. Hers just become rancid little bottles of nasty goo after a while.
She showed me a concert ticket stub recently that she has been saving in her purse. I told her she can throw it out now. Her response: “But what if I forget that I went?”

What’s kind of funny about that to me is that I will mostly likely forget that I went, but I still throw the stubs out. Maybe if I kept more stuff I’d remember things better!

I believe that my mother is a hoarder, Stage 2, but I’m not quite sure if a clinical diagnosis would really be accurate. She sure exhibits nearly all of the traits and symptoms, though.

I spent Christmas Eve at her place, amid the clutter and filth (the guest room is the only “safe” room left in the house), and choked down Christmas dinner while watching roaches scurry around her kitchen.

I didn’t grow up in squalor, though: I’ve recently realized that my father’s influence in the house helped while my brother and I were kids (they divorced while I was in high school; I’m now 36 and my brother is 34), and then my influence helped until I moved out (my brother is worse than Mom, and has other psychological issues, so he is not an option as a source of help and actually contributes to the problem even though he doesn’t live there anymore, either). The condition of her house has been going steadily downhill for the past 13 years, and especially in the past 9 years since I moved out of state. The first time we had a holiday dinner among roaches was Thanksgiving 2004. Like so many ohers who have posted in this thread, repeated offers of help and doing what cleaning I can over the years have been met with resistance and denial and anger.

I had a little meltdown at her place on Christmas Eve, when I noticed the roaches, and am in the process of staging a sort of one-person intervention via email (we often don’t communicate well over the phone, which is a completely separate issue). I closed my last email by apologizing for seeming harsh or insensitive, and stressed that I love her and just don’t want to see her living like that. At the same time, though, I told her that I cannot and will not go back into her house until changes are made: if she continues to do nothing, I will pick her up in her driveway on her birthday, Mother’s Day, etc., or will meet her at a restaurant. She has responded to say that she knows that I love and care about her, and that she will respond further once she has had time to think carefully about what I wrote. I don’t want to believe that she is so far gone that a figurative kick in the ass won’t help, but we’ll see how it goes. In the email I asked if I needed to call her doctor and express concern about her mental health: that was more of a shock tactic than a real threat, but if this “intervention” doesn’t bear results I might have to seriously consider that option.

My parents, too, are completely diverse in their approaches to housekeeping. My mom lives the way she does, but my father’s roomy townhouse is nearly spotless and for the past 8-10 years he’s had two housecleaners who come every two weeks. It’s only been in recent years that I’ve realized how similar my mom and brother/my father and I are in that regard.

This made me laugh, because – as anal retentive as I am about cleaning and order – for as long as I can remember I have collected “do not disturb” signs from hotels that I stay in (but only if the sign bears the hotel’s name), and have kept nearly every movie, concert, theatre, etc. stub and have put them in photo albums. I’m in the process of digitizing my collection now, though, and scanning everything. Except movie ticket stubs: I entered the name and date of every movie into Google Notes, and then simply threw away all of the stubs (and that’s what I do when I see a movie now, too). So I get to satisfy my desire to “remember” while also satisfying my abhorrence of clutter. :slight_smile:

Man, I’ve been reading this thread in queasy fascination but haven’t replied yet on account of my grandmother and her house. It’s been over twenty years but it’s still clear in my mind what it was like to dung out her place.

Grandma lived in a single wide mobile home with two pullouts in the living and back bedroom. Nobody had been in her place for years, she wouldn’t allow anyone to come in at all–even when she had heart attacks she’s call the EMTs but wait for them on the stoop to take her to the hospital. We started REALLY sniffing a rat when she went to the hospital with heart pains but wouldn’t allow anyone to touch her purse; turns out she had over $7000 in cash and uncashed disability/SS checks in there. The nurses finally got it away from her by promising to lock it in the hospital safe until someone in the family took it and deposited the checks and cash in her bank account. Apparently she was convinced the government would stop her checks if she actually put them in her bank account or something. She would come stay with my mom or my uncle for months at a time because she didn’t want to go to her place. I was in my early twenties when I finally guilted my mom and aunt into cleaning the place out and moving her into a place where she could be cared for–we told her we were going to do it and told her she didn’t have a choice and no matter what we would never reproach her for what we found.

And we certainly did find a whole lot! We went into that place and found the entire house was a rat warren, floor to ceiling piles of junk with tiny paths maybe a foot wide going from the front room to the kitchen, and about two feet x five of the bed was clear enough to sleep in, although it wasn’t possible to get under the bed clothes and I remembered the coverlet from when I was a small child and came to visit. The kitchen was a horror–fossilized crusted out food in the sink that was so old the dishes would have to be chipped apart, drifts two to four inches thick of dead ants cemented together with bug spray (scores of cans of empty poison all over the counters and floor,) piles of opened cans of food all rotten and fossilized, the stove covered with inches of spilled and baked on food and grease–the stove didn’t work at all, literally NO room to move in there and the refrigerater couldn’t be opened. This was just as well as it also wasn’t working and there’s no way to tell how long it had been that way. After the kitchen sink became so clogged it wouldn’t work she moved on to filling up the bathroom sink, then the bathtub. Full of dishes covered in filth, and no place to bathe or clean herself available in the whole place. The built in washer/dryer hadn’t worked since who knows how long.

We found pill bottles from 1953 with one pill in them (we tackled this project in 1984!) and magazines and newspapers dating back to then as well. We found unopened boxes and bottles of cleaning materials, hundreds of different kinds–obviously she really intended to clean it up someday but so much of the stuff was so old it wasn’t even manufactured any more. We found a fish tank with streaks down the sides as the water evaporated, with the papery remains of fish stuck to the gravel in the bottom. We found a couple of dead birds that must have flown in sometime and couldn’t figure out how to get back out–they were stuck to the carpet. I had to clear out the front bedroom, being the only non cat-allergic person involved–there was cat hair stuck over an inch thick to the carpet and curtains in there and we know she hadn’t had a cat in close to twenty years. At one point I found myself laughing hysterically and saying to mom and aunt “who says grandma doesn’t have any pets?!” I found stuff that I played with as a small child and used to visit her–still in the drawer where I left it, never touched.

She had twenty or thirty unopened large size boxes of sanitary napkins–the woman was in her 70’s! What did she need those for, anyway? Five or six weed whackers. Two lawnmowers, never used. Incredible amounts of hoarded crap jammed into such a small space. Luckily for our sanity the really gross areas were confined to the kitchen and bathroom; the rest of the house was horribly jammed full of junk but at least it wasn’t rotten! The part that made me cry, though, was that she had collected so much crap that there was no place to sit down anywhere, the TV was inaccessible–basically she spent all her time there laying in that little section of bed with nothing to do but read old newspapers or listen to an AM clock radio. No wonder she camped on family members for months!

We pulled out enough garbage to make a pile of thirty gallon trash bags twelve feet square and eight feet high–had to rent a drop dumpster to get rid of it all. On the plus side so much of the furniture had been buried so long it was actually in decent shape–way fifties retro but okay–and we pulled out enough usable stuff to furnish a one bedroom apartment. To this day I still use some of the spools of thread I rescued out of grandma’s place–she had a ton of sewing and needlepoint supplies and I’m kinda crafty that way too…

On the plus side, I think she was one of those people who just got overwhelmed after grandpa died and let it get away from her rather than it being attributable to mental illness or OCD. After the initial resistance when I just told her flat out that I couldn’t bear to see her live that way one more minute and that’s that she seemed almost relieved to have the subterfuge done with and to have the responsibility for her situation taken out of her hands. To be fair, I was probably the only person she would have listened to; we always were very close. We moved her into the tidy little apartment where she lived for almost six months before finally succumbing to a combination of cancer, emphysema and a dicky heart. At least I knew she could invite people over to see her that last few months and she no longer had to be ashamed of the way she lived. I bought her a plant as a housewarming gift that I brought home after she died–I not only still have it almost 25 years later, but I’ve taken clippings from it and both my kids have a plant from it too. Heck, I’ve had to cut so many runners off that plant I could probably have grown a forest of the stuff!

Another good thing that came from this experience is that I learned that I too have inclinations toward hoarding that have been reinforced by others seeing me as the “reliable one” who can keep track of crap they leave with me for safe keeping. When I moved to Oregon we came here with one Toyota pickup truck worth of stuff and put the rest in storage. Six months later we picked up another full sized pickup load of useful stuff (like my books!) and dumped the rest. I decided that stuff like furniture is ephemeral and seldom worth moving around, especially if there’s nothing unique about it. I decided that I generally prefer recycling furniture and that way when I get tired of it or it doesn’t suit my lifestyle I just donate it back to Goodwill and it doesn’t bother me because it didn’t cost a lot in the first place. I know I’ll never stop being a bit of an accumulator, but I’ve also acquired a taste for dump runs and we take in loads of busted up useless crap once or twice a year and do my best to avoid buying things that are cluttery and have no real use. Also, anything aside from tools or camping equipment that’s been in a box and/or not used for six months gets pitched. The only bete noir I still have is collecting books–it’s very difficult for me to give them up since I do re-read books and have had too many instances of books I owned going out of print and becoming unfindable to dispose of books with equanimity. On the plus side, my grandchild shares my tastes in literature so I plan on leaving him the books and I make a concerted effort to use the library whenever possible rather than buying more books.

Hoarding and squalor are horrible but I think there’s something about the way Americans relate to STUFF that encourages it. The overwhelming message is that more crap is what makes you more happy; that buying stuff and having lots of stuff is the basis of comfort, stability and safety. Somewhere along the line a switch gets flipped and people become victims of their own stuff–they’re trapped and surrounded by their own need for safety and those piles of crap equal comfort. It’s sick, but as long as US culture equates lots of stuff with success and happiness it’s going to result in hoarders and those who live in squalor.

Believe me, I’ve thought of this but we live in a little podunk town without any maid services, at least that I’ve been able to discover and I don’t think the services in the big city an hour away would come out this far. I don’t know but I might have to do a little more searching. I know my back and my knees will appreciate it!

I’ve been in the houses of friends who were in degrees 2 and 3 squalor (never really knew what the word meant until this thread, btw, I thought it meant “lack of stuff due to poverty”… d’oh!) and one of the things they all shared was drawn blinds and very little light.

Being somewhat claustrophobic myself, the lack of light almost made me more nervous than the overflowing ashtrays or the piles of dirty dishes. Well, the dishes didn’t make me nervous, they just made me lose any appetite I had. I need my kitchens to be at least as clean as my labs (I’m a chemist by training).

Mom’s an organized clutterer; it pretty much takes a Caritas drive to get her to throw away any clothes, she keeps saying she’s going to sell some of the ancient books she’s got (or throw away things like, say, Dad’s high school classnotes!) but never does… but she doesn’t get more than she can keep out of sight. Well, except for the piles of books and magazines, because, you know, since it’s her clutter, it doesn’t bother her (these piles have been growing slowly since Dad died, they took a leap forward when I left again after his death and another one when Singlebro left). One of the things I hate about being with her is that she keeps putting away things that are supposed to be out (like the clothes I’ve just gotten out of the closet because it’s what I plan on wearing). But if ever Marriedbro and SiL manage to convince her to move into a smaller place? All the money I’m going to make in what’s left of my life says she’d not throw away anything on the move and just move into pileland.

I’m not sure whether I’m relieved that she’s not that bad or terrified that someday she’ll be :frowning: