I pit Mom's housekeeping (long, but mild - she's my mom and all).

The BBQ Pit
1

My mother has a problem with “stuff.” She was always something of a sloppy housekeeper, but in the six years since my brother moved out (four years after me) things have gotten really, really bad. If you were to look around her house you would think “hoarder,” but the truth is partly that she’s lazy and partly that she has some legitimate health issues that make it difficult for her to do much cleaning. I am a bit on the anal retentive side (I think as a reaction to her housekeeping), and for the past couple of years it has been very difficult for me to be in her house. Before you can do anything, you have to move something out of your way: want to sit on the couch? Gotta move stuff. Want to cook something? Gotta move the crap that’s piled on top of the stove and countertops. Want to sit at the table? Gotta clear stuff off both the table and the chair. Etc, etc. She can never find anything, all of her closets and cabinets are unintentional booby traps, and there are broken things (a phone, an electric can opener, a cheap radio, etc.) lying around here and there because she hasn’t gotten around to throwing them out yet. She lives in a 4-bedroom split-level, and every single room is trashed.

I love my mom, and don’t want to see her living like this, so I have offered to help. Several times. I live 50 miles away from her, but have repeatedly told her that I’m willing to come down on a weekend and all she will have to do is sit in a chair and tell me what to pitch and what to keep (her computer room is in probably the worst shape, but I could never sift through all of the papers without guidance). She says “no” every time, usually with some variation of “I know the house is a mess, but let me see what I can get done in the next week or two.” But every time I visit, nothing is different. Sometimes when I visit I’m able to help her clean up some stuff: I hooked up the stereo that was sitting in its box in her living room for 3 weeks after she bought it, I have cleaned up her living room and the basement as best I could during visits, etc. But I never have the time, or her cooperation, to make more than minor improvements.

I have explained to her that I am deeply uncomfortable being surrounded by so much clutter, and that it wouldn’t matter whose house it was – my problem isn’t with her, just with her house. She understands, and her rationale has always been “well, it may be cluttered, but it’s not dirty.” I’ve been happy to go along with her, even though I believed her house to, indeed, be dirty (despite the fact that she has a housekeeper come in fairly regularly; the woman does a mediocre job at best, but Mom either doesn’t notice what goes uncleaned or is too concerned with being “nice” to tell the woman to do her goddamn job).

After yesterday’s Thanksgiving dinner, however, I don’t think anyone can still pretend that her house is merely cluttered.

I’ve alluded to the fact that her kitchen is a mess. She cleared some stovetop and countertop space for the cooking, but you can tell that there are some places where things have spilled or dripped and were never properly cleaned up. Toward the back of each countertop is a no-man’s land of piled stuff. So it’s nearly dinnertime, and she has these turkey breast things that are wrapped in string, and she has asked me to cut the string off them so we can bring them to the table. I start to cut the string off the first turkey breast, and from out of nowhere a cockroach charges me. A big cockroach. Suddenly booking it down the counter, toward me and the turkeys. So I grabbed some paper towels and squished it (even though doing so always gives me the willies), and then noticed another one on the wall next to the oven. It was minding its own business, not moving (though it was alive), so I ignored it until my mom came back into the kitchen. At which point I said, sotto voce because a friend of the family was nearby, “You need to call an exterminator: I have just seen two roaches in the past 30 seconds.” I pointed out the one that was on the wall near the oven, and asked if she had any bug spray. She did, so we sprayed the one we could see and then I sprayed in the crack between the counter and the oven and sprayed behind the oven a little. At which point several more critters came out, so I sprayed what I saw and told her that there were a bunch of 'em behind the oven. And what does she say? “I’d seen a couple in the bathroom recently, but didn’t really think much of it.”

:eek: :eek: :eek:

The bathroom and kitchen share a wall, so I speculated that they might be living in said wall. I played it cool, but I could not believe that she ignored roaches in her bathroom!! And that they were all over the kitchen (I saw another one crawl up from behind the oven while we were eating; luckily, I was the only one facing the kitchen during dinner)!!

Needless to say, my appetite was a little, um, suppressed for the rest of the day. I was grossed out, sad and worried for my mom (were the roaches there because of her??), and also extremely annoyed with her. This is a 56-year-old woman with a regular housekeeper and an able-bodied (though extremely lazy) 31-year-old son who lives 10 minutes away from her: in my mind there is NO REASON for her house to be such a mess. It frustrates the hell out of me.

Luckily, we’d already planned to have Christmas at my house, so the next holiday meal will be in a neat, clean, well-lit place. I am, however, supposed to go back to her house for dinner with her and my brother on New Year’s Day: while I know that she will have called an exterminator before then (she better do it tomorrow!), I worry that it will be too soon (emotionally) to go back for another round of “shuffle the clutter and ignore the dirt.” Hopefully I’ll be ready to put on a happy face by then, at least for a few hours.

Sometimes I feel like some kind of intervention is called for, but she gets extremely defensive when I bring up the subject of her house. And I can tell her to be tougher on the housekeeper until I’m blue in the face, and she’ll tell me that she knows I’m right, but when push comes to shove she’s more interested in being the woman’s friend (which pisses me off; she’s your employee, dammit!). So usually I just wind up pissed off at both her and the situation. It would be different if she were old, or all alone, or truly incapable of taking care of herself, but she’s not!

Sorry for the super-size rant. I think I feel a little better . . . it just always drives me crazy to spend any time at her house, and cockroaches for Thanksgiving dinner did NOT help. :mad: :frowning:

2

You cannot control your mother’s behavior. You can control only your behavior. If she chooses to live amid clutter and roaches, that is her business, not yours – up to a point.

If you think that your mother may have developed a mental illness, confer with any siblings that you have and your mother’s personal physician about what steps you should take. It is possible that your mother is not lazy at all but has an illness in which a lack of energy is a symptom.

Or maybe her priorities just aren’t yours. If she can afford a housekeeper, she must have a source of income. Is she able to hold a job? Her ability to function outside the house may give you a clue about her mental stability.

If she is independent and not in danger of causing herself real harm, tell her that the clutter and roaches are too much for your sense of order and that she is welcome to visit you in your home, but you won’t visit with her again under these circumstances.

If she chooses to pay a “housekeeper” to be a friend, that is her right and not your concern.

You were really very decent to offer to help clean things up. I wish someone would offer to help me! :wink:

3

I agree with ** Zoe **.

Since you are concerned and she turns down your offers of special trips for you to come clean up for her then maybe you could just stop in to visit a little more often and keep doing what you have been doing as far as helping while you are there.

She may not like you offering to come just for cleaning. You know your Mom better than I do but she maybe hurt or offended by you offering, some people are that way. Or it may shame her, during the last year of my Mom’s life my sisters or myself had to be with her often and do the cooking, cleaning and such. She hated it, she did NOT want her children to have to take care of her. She was only 62 by the way. Maybe your Mom feels the same way. Or she may even feel that somehow you are judging her based on her housekeeping instead of her value as a person and a Mother. I am not saying that is the case, just thinking I would probably feel that way if my Son were to offer to do that. As I said you know her better than I do.

You say the roaches are big, maybe they are tree roaches or palmetto bugs, Those suckers are huge and may have come in from outside and may indeed taken over in that wall. Usually the roaches that are associated with a dirty house are the smaller, but no less gross, ones.

As for the “stuff” issues, well I am a pack rat, so is my Husband and his Uncle who lives with us. There are boxes of stuff here, and the collection grows. Why ? Because we or someone else may need it one day. It’s just the way we are.

I lost my Mom last month, I would give anything to see her again, to clean for her again, to cook a meal for her. Please don’t be offened when I say this, there will come a day (and I hope that day is many, many years in the future) when you will be where I am and would give anything to sit in the middle of that clutter and talk to her once more. Treasure each second with her while you can.

I do have a problem with your ** (she better do it tomorrow!) ** remark. Do you pay her bills ? Do you pay for her house or buy her food ? She is grown, not living with you, sorry but you have no right to demand that she do anything on your time line. If I had ever told my Mom she had better do something and when she had to do it she would have kicked my ass up around my shoulder blades. And if my Son ever has the nerve to say such a thing to me or about me for that matter he would regret it for a very long time.

Sorry but Moms are a touchy subject to me right now and I may be out of line saying these things to you. I don’t know.
I’ll hit the submit button anyway.

4

Man, this hits close to home. My father died a couple years ago from respiratory problems leaving my mother alone in a big house. She had always saved a lot of stuff. She sewed and did some art and she’d save things she thought she could make something out of. She’d buy little gifts and collectibles frequently and had an entire room filled with those things. But when you asked her about stuff she’d tell you she bought this or that for so-and-so (a grandchild who’d grown and moved away) and she didn’t want to mail it she was hoping to give it to her someday if she visits (which they never do). Or she’d get collectible items thinking that she could leave them to us kids and they might be worth something some day. She had a lot of household papers and other things. She had a ton of books because both her and my dad read a lot. Basically every room in the house was cluttered, the kitchen was often dirty. We live in Florida so everyone had cockroaches, how many just depends on whether you have an exterminator out regularly. When I visited I often ended up washing her dishes for her.

The house was in disrepair because my father had been unable to do many repairs before he died because of his illness. My brothers had done a few repairs here and there but one decided that he and another brother would buy a house near him and fix it up for my mom, then trade her for the old house which they would then fix up and sell for “big money”. Those other siblings that couldn’t afford to buy in were expected to invest time in working on either house. I said I had neither money or time to invest and I would help my mother move and that’s it. I have a neuromuscular problem which I have only told my mother about because I know my brothers attitude will be that I’m faking it. Anyway. I barely have the energy to work most of the time, extreme physical exertion usually puts me into a pain flare up. I knew I could not commit to anything physical.

Well, the brothers took too long fixing up the newer house then started panicking when they had to move her because things weren’t going fast enough because they had all this money invested and weren’t getting anything back on it. Big idea brother asked me to come buy and help clean up the new house for mom (clean windows which was unnecessary and should have been done by someone younger). My sister was helping my mom pack stuff. Apparently my sister was getting frustrated by my mom taking too long to go through things and complained to Big Idea brother. He confronted her, yelled at her and took her key to the old house and said they’d decided what she gets to keep. She called me very upset, there were some other things she wanted there and asked me to get them. I get there to find my brother had changed the locks so my key didn’t work. I confront him and we get in a shouting match. I tell him she still owns the other house and he has no right to lock her out. He says she’s crazy and he’ll have her Baker acted and me thrown in jail for interfering (he is not even the oldest, nor does he have power of attorney). I told him I’d have him arrested for elderly abuse because who are the cops going to believe the screaming red-faced ass with a criminal record or the crying old woman with a heart condition who was locked out of her home away for her belongings that she has spent over seventy years accumulating and just wanted to be able to decide what happened to them.

Long story short, much hard feelings were had by all. I was angry at my sister for not calling me if she was frustrated by mom but calling the angry hothead that mom’s afraid of. Sister was mad at me because I had called her and left a message that if she didn’t override the hothead and let mom back in the house I was done with her as well. Eventually we all got together for a big screaming match which ended with my sister and I working on the house and gradually letting my mother come back to point out what she wanted. Eventually, they let my mother have the keys again and she was allowed to go back and sort through things. They had a couple garage sales and thinned out the unwanted stuff. She was allowed to keep some stuff. I was sent into about a six week pain flare up from all the emotional and physical stress and I had to pretend I wasn’t hurting anytime I was around my siblings.

My mother still is very hurt by all this. She was probably closer to my sister than me and even though they see each other a lot she still is hurt by what happened. Oldest brother still doesn’t talk to her, he’s the one with the most issues with mom and still lives in the past over those. Hothead Big Idea brother had a concillatory brunch on Mother’s Day which we all attended and pretended we liked each other but we don’t see each other much at all. My relationship with my sister is pretty much ruined. The only brother I see on a regular basis and have an okay relationship was the one in the middle who never got involved in the shouting mess.

So, if you don’t want a total family meltdown please do not confront your mother and force her to do what you want. Do not involve your sibling unless you know he’s not going to make things worse. You could have a serious discussion with your mother to the effect that if she were to get ill or god forbid something happened it would be better if her house were more organized and you can offer to help her do so on your visits. If you can afford a little expense maybe you can buy her a nice file cabinet, file folders and a shredder and help her sort through papers on one visit. Then maybe get some nice shelves and plastic boxes and organize some other items on another visit (I recommend Martha Stewart’s method of wire utility shelves like the kind used in restaurants and clear plastic boxes with good lids to put things in). Another visit you could help her organize her kitchen, maybe it’s a mess because her shelves are hard to reach or hard to access, so maybe some lazy susans for putting pantry items on or dishracks for the cabinets and things like that. While helping her do these things talk to her a lot, ask her about her collections and for stories about the family then you can hopefully both feel good about it.

I had planned to do these sort of things with my mother even before my brother’s idea came along and the whole thing blew up but for me I was either working or too tired from working or in a pain flare and never got around to it. I also have a servere allergy to dust so the times I did attempt some of this stuff I’d usually end up in an allergy attack after about an hour and unable to do much more (even after taking preemptive antihistamines). So if you can get something accomplished with your mother before you actually have to do something about it you will be glad you made the extra effort.

5

I just want to emphatize that you should not make ultimatums and do not criticize her housekeeping, call her home dirty, etc. These things will hurt her and set off a defense mechanism where she will refuse your help.

Your offers should be because you want to spend time with her and help her. You can say that you found this neat organizing system for kitchen cabinets and you want to show it to her. Or you finally got your own papers organized and want to show her how you did it. Or you’d like a collection of the family photos and maybe you could take them and organize them and then have everything put on CD’s.

6

Misnomer, has she been seen by a doctor recently? If she hasn’t always been like this (and I assume she has not) then it’s possible she is suffering from depression or some other condition that is robbing her of her energy. If that’s the case, then the problem is not that she doesn’t WANT to clean up her house but rather that she just can’t.

I had a thyroid condition for months before I had it diagnosed and removed. During those months, I barely stepped outside. I didn’t weed the garden, I didn’t want to cook meals, the tub had to be gross before I’d pick up a scrub brush. I just felt so fatigued all the time. To an outsider, I was lazy. I wasn’t. I just couldn’t get the energy up to care. Now that I’m on synthroid, I care again. In fact, I’m getting ready to paint my family room as I type. Six months ago, I wouldn’t have cared.

So before I did anything about the house, I’d take mom in to have a physical done. Being a clutterbug is well within normal. Having actual bugs running amouck throughout your house is not.

7

Thanks for the replies, everyone. . .
Zoe: I know that I cannot control my mother’s behavior. That is why I ranted here instead of to her. :slight_smile:

Mental illness is not a possibility (this addresses PunditLisa’s reply, too): she has several doctors, which she sees frequently (she just saw her internist on Wednesday), and I would never be judgemental even to perfect strangers if I thought that might be the case. She has a full-time job, friends, goes to church, etc. This is not a sudden problem, my frustrations are the result of this problem having existed for many, many years. One of the first things I said was that she has some legitimate health issues that make it difficult for her to clean, but there is some laziness involved – trust me, it runs in the family.

As far as her housekeeper being her business: what, I’m not even allowed to vent to people who don’t know her? I thought that’s what this place was for.
Ayesha: It’s not as easy as “stopping in more often.” It’s at least an hour’s drive, if traffic is good, and as long as I’m in grad school (and trying to have a life of my own) it’s not really an option to head up there much more often than I already do. Also, I do not only offer to visit to clean. I never meant to imply that: the only times I offer to make trips with a specific purpose are when she’s been sighing to me about how much of a mess her house is.

You and your husband and uncle are pack rats, but you’re ok with it. That’s fine. I might not be comfortable in your house, but hey, it’s your house, your life, etc. It’s different with my mother, though, because I know that she is not ok with her house being this way. How do I know? I’ve asked her. We’ve talked about it. Openly, honestly. At her prompting. But all of the talk and good intentions in the world won’t make her house any less of a fire hazard, only she can do that, and that’s why I get frustrated.

The “she better do it tomorrow” line that got you all worked up? I said that here, not to her. I would never do that, for the exact reasons you mention.

I’m sorry that you lost your mom recently. I’ve seen a few of your other threads, so I know you’ve been through hell with your family. But you’re right that you’re a little out of line: you’re chastising me for things I’ve neither said nor done.
Wile E: You, too, might be reading a little too much into my rant. I have not, nor would I ever, give my mother any kind of ultimatum, insult her, or try to “force” her to do anything.

I have done many of the things you suggest: I just gave her a filing cabinet yesterday, as a matter of fact, because a few weeks ago she mentioned that she needed one. I have brought her many things, each time checking with her first to see if she might want it: shelves for the kitchen, organizers for her CDs/DVDs, etc. You say work a little on each room when I visit: well, that requires her cooperation, and as I said she never wants to do it. I never nag her, or say anything about the house out of the blue: it is only in reaction to her saying something about it first. That is part of what makes me so frustrated – she claims to want things to be different, but when it comes down to it (with willing and able help available) she won’t do a damn thing. And even when I do manage to make a dent in some part of the house, a few months later it’s back to the way it was before.

8

This is what I was thinking as well. A couple of years ago, I suffered from depression and could not get myself to clean my apartment or pay bills. I knew these things were important, but I couldn’t get myself to do them. When a new bill came in and there was a late fee or if I’d see dirty clothes all over the floor, I’d hate myself for letting things get out of control and promise myself to do better. It might have looked like laziness to others, but it wasn’t. I knew these things needed to get done, but I could not get myself motivated or in the right frame of mind to actually do these things.

9

Of course you’re allowed to vent! Sorry if I assumed that you were about to try to do anything to change your mother’s ways.

I think that my problem is that I very closely identify with her. :smiley: I think she has her priorities in order!

10

I also want to empithize.

My Father. We have tried and tried to help, and sometimes he lets us… It’s a bigger chore to get him to let us than it is to clean his house. That’s saying something.

My brother lives next DOOR to him and he can’t even keep up. Dad just won’t let him.

My bro has pretty much had it. My Wife is actually the one person that he will allow to do some things. He knows that he would not dare speak harshly to her. He did once. She just wanted to go to his house and see the dog. He just feels horrible for yelling at my Wife. We don’t work that way around here. It was settled calmly and quickly. But no. I will not allow that shit.

There is also another problem. He has a sweet little dog. Or should be a little dog. Cocker Spannial. 60lbs.

God. We do everything we can to try to get him to put the dog on a diet, but he is in complete denial. My dear Wife used to work animal control. We love dogs. We know dogs. Our ‘kids’.

And now, my Dad is going blind. Cataracts. We are trying so hard to try to get him to get some help. I’m going there tomorroe to try to get some paper work done.

But this. Shit.

11

Misnomer Much sympathy from me. My mom is the same only she never cleans her house. My sister and I find the only way we can deal with it is to just not go to her house. We meet her at restaurants or hotels. If we have to go to her house we try to remember that she’s an adult and can live however she likes but she also has to live with the consequence of less visiting from us. We certainly won’t eat or drink at her house or even go to the bathroom. Any attempts from us to help are met with disdain. She takes a strange kind of pride in always being not like everyone else and this is one of her ways of being different.

It makes us sad and angry at her but there’s really nothing we can do about it.

12

A mess eventually reaches a point of diminishing returns. you are unable to clean it because there’s no where to go. If you pick this up, there’s no where to put it down, without picking up something else, and on and on.
Some people reach that point mentally or emotionally, before its physically true. One looks and just sees the mountain of stuff, and loses prespective.
Could your Mom be there? Could it be she sees it as a Sisyphian task that she doesn’t want to subject you to?
Maybe if you talked out a game plan, so she wouldn’t be afraid of losing something important, then have a sib take her out to lunch and you or you and… go in and remove a layer. If she could come home to just a little more organization, it might not be so overwhelming.
I’d guess she might like for you to do it, but is embarrassed that she can’t do it herself.
I know from first hand experience, as we age we fool ourselves into believing we can do everything we once could, if only we put our minds to it. She may be saying let’s see what I can get done, because she doesn’t want to ask you to do what she “knows” she can do herself.
Sometimes, someone must just take the reins, gently out of our old hands and say “I’ll drive awhile, Mom”
Good Luck.
M

13

If there are roaches it could be a serious health hazard.

Only you can determine if your mother is competent enough. Is she the only one living there? It’s possible, as picunurse said, that the mess could have gotten away from her. The house may be too big for her now.

I could suggest the flylady method of cleaning, but I would submit your mom is highly embarrassed by the mess. I would sit her down, tell her you love her, but it hurts and worries you to see her living like this. This, “I’ll get to it in a week or two,” needs to be confronted because obviously she isn’t or can’t.

14

I have a suggestion that might seem a little silly, but it might help. And only do it if you think she won’t be too offended.

Get her a garbage can. A nice 20-gallon garbage can of the outdoor type, but brand new, so it’s nice and clean. (Rubbermaid Brutes are very nice.) This way, she can use the big can indoors, taking it from room to room to chuck stuff into. Also get her some super heavy-duty garbage bags to fit it.

As picunurse says, the sysphian nature of the task might be stalling her. Throwing things out might seem like a big deal if she has to take everything out to the garage or whatever to chuck it. Having a garbage can right next to her can make things just that much easier.

I recently got one for myself. I named it Bruno. The other day, I decided I was going to throw out 100 things. It was surprisingly easy to find 100 things to get rid of that were of no value and not suitable for donation. Yikes! Having Bruno to take around with me really helped.

And I wouldn’t discount the possibilty of a mental problem. She could just be depressed. Depression can be very hard to detect in some people–depressed people often don’t act “depressed.” The kind of mess that you’re describing is a classic sign. And the mess might be fueling the depression, so she lets it get messier, which makes her more depressed, and on and on. It’s a bad cycle.

Good luck.

15

I like what Green Bean suggested. I’m someone who likes spic and span rooms in theory, but am too lazy so I usually have some clutter. :wink: When I need to clean up, what I do is break it down into tiny tasks. For example, I’ll say: “each time I step into (room that needs to have the clutter thrown out), I will find three things that I can throw out, and throw them out.” It doesn’t matter if I find only 3 pieces of paper, or a broken pencil, a crumpled post-it note and a clothing tag lying on the floor. The point is that I have picked up 3 things and the room is now a teeny bit cleaner.

I also, obviously, forbid myself to put anything in this room during this time. :wink: But it makes the cleaning job less intimidating, and when you can see actual progress being made, it’s easier for you to say, “hey, I see 5 things to throw out now!” or to just keep going for a bit.

16

Tell her how much you love her. Eat out when you visit. Clean house each time you visit. Get her medical/psychiatric help.