I think the food is why I fell in love with my wife. But the not American food imitations but the stuff we eat every day. I avoid Americanized food as much as possible for the same reason I avoid the poor imitations of Mexican food. I could go on for DAYS about the food here, my favorites though are the regional “farm house” type foods you would find in the Interior of São Paulo and Minas Gerais states (sp?). I would go on about the specifics but it would take pages and pages and pages. But damn the food here is GOOooooD!
In a lot of regards this is still true. They are in fact poor imitations. But I don’t eat that stuff. My breakfast is usually bread bought daily from the bakery down the street with cheese and ham, with yogurt and coffee. (for you ** minor7flat5 ** Pãozinho com presunto e´ queijo, café, iogurte e as veias um pouco de manteiga). Up until around 1992-93 import restrictions were very tight, so the domestic market accepted whatever schlock it was given. Now a days you can petty much get whatever you want if you can afford the imported stuff, but still basic, I haven’t ever seen Cherrieos, there is a Nut ‘n honey but it’s just not the same. I do get imported corn flakes and granola though. As far as soggy chips, I never ran into that, but leave a bag open for a few hours and they get soggy all right!
I agree, when in Rome do as the Romans! If I want chicken fried stake and mashed potatoes, the grocery store sells the stuff to make it, but WHY! (Translation of above: Mmmmm…Black beans with rice, a delicious/enjoyable beef (non specific) with a little salad all made with LOTS of garlic!) Incidentally, white rice here is made by first sautéing onions and garlic in olive oil, THEN add water to boil etc. - rice and black beans can be eaten alone and the rice does not taste like target paste. Try it!
I think I would have felt the same way back then, but not today, as stated in the last response, about the only fault of food here is Mexican, There are BIG oriental communities here so even getting the stuff to make Thai food is easy. Don’t even get me started on the Pizza here. Or Italian food in general, It’s the best outside of Italy ( I have never been to NY) I will never eat another pizza in the USA as long as I live!
BTW: ** minor7flat5 ** Where are you from/how do you speak portuguese?
Mmmmmmm… Fresh bread, with a generous layer of requeijão cremoso, or a chunk of queijinho de Minas. I miss the cheeses. Requeijão is one thing that you can’t find in the Ironbound section of Newark.
The pizza is another thing, however. I found that it didn’t taste anything like what my American taste buds expect. It seems like the bread is fluffier, and it seems to have a strong olive-oil base to it. I suppose I should go to NYC if I want a slice of American pizza, and go to Brazil for a proper churrascaria.
I’m a red-blooded American boy who has been married to a carióca for many years. I love the Portuguese language (our language of choice at home) and almost all things Brazilian: the people, the food, the music, etc. With luck, we will go back down this summer.
** Again, sorry about the delay, I went away for the holidays. **
** Asylum ** wrote
Oh NO! I TOLD you not to tell anyone!
** galen ** wrote
First let me say, I am no political analyst, not even an armchair political analyst. I can not speak very intelligently about this subject, I can only give my opinions based on about 10 years of casual observation. But I will give it a shot. Again, no SITES only opinions, and I could be a bit foggy on some of these points. Those who want to know for sure only need look up his name “Luiz Inácio Lula daSilva”.
I first herd of Lula in 1994, he was whining about how the latest president was not listening to the people. IMO his platform has always been “I should be president because I am one of the people, and I know the people better then YOU.” I know of 4 of his attempts to become president, he was always good at pointing out where the other political parties were not serving the people, agitating the poor and disenfranchised but never coming up with any solutions, other than calling general strikes to demonstrate the will of the people (and his own power). From the look of things, and the word of the folks I know, he has no higher level education, no diplomatic experience, no obvious economic plan or understanding. But he was always very passionate about the rights of the under classes, calling for radical agrarian reform and a better distribution of wealth (again with no really viable plan). He supported the “Sem Terra” movement, basically a radical land redistribution program whereby a group of land-less people would squat on a parcel of unused land and start farming, when eviction time came they would hold their ground with “lawyers guns and donations”. In a lot of cases this has worked to better the lives of many people. (note here that there are GIGANTIC swaths of unused farm land in Brazil, we are talking square miles of unused land controlled by say, one family – often held as an asset and never intended for development). This time around though he has obviously gotten a PR firm of some sort or another. He has taken a less radical tone, is more articulate, dresses the part of someone who could respectably run a globalized country and in general is far more “presidential” then ever before. I must say that during the presidential debates he came off as far more calm and collected than his opponents, he was better able to articulate the serious problems faced by the country, (although, still, with no visible plan as to how to resolve them), he at least was able to demonstrate that he knew what the people are faced with. On the street, even the ones who did not vote for him are showing support because he is now the president, and all agree it is time for some serious reforms. According to “The Economist” last survey of the Brazilian economy 2 or 3 years ago, I read that one third of the GDP is going into the pockets of about twelve million people, so I agree, it’s time for some reforms. Personally I was amazed at how profoundly smooth the last elections and subsequent transition went. If nothing else, to me, this shows a certain national maturity, democracy is alive and well here and working quite nicely. Now the country seems to be in a wait and see mode. Lula has been in on some of the higher level decisions that have been made recently even though he was not officially the president until 01/01/03, and there has been no radical inflation, no panic, and a general political tranquility on the part of people on the street. I, as part of the very small middle class, (read that as working, not rich, but not living in poverty, we don’t own the companies that produce the wealth, nor do we do the actual work, I would say we are the management class and some small business owners), are apprehensive. The very rich have their economic protections, the very poor will enjoy the reforms for the benefit of the country – so where will the tax base come from that will be needed for reforms? Well, forget the very rich, forget the very poor, that only leaves…OH SHIT! I can only hope he listens well to his advisors and the country continues to grow for the benefit of all.
I’m actually very interested in this discussion. I am also married to a Brazilian (from Belém in the North, so she has mostly indigenous blood). We are currently living in the Netherlands, and though my wife likes it better than Germany (the Germans are too ‘cold’ as she says. Kind of strange, since I’m German!) she still gets really homesick. Since we’ve also got two kids, going to Brazil for vacation is basically out of the question for us Going to Rio or São Paulo is expensive enough, but to Belém… forget it. Something like 1000 (US) dollars per person!
I currently work in Technical Support for an American multinational software company (see my sig for a hint) that also has an office in São Paulo. I would be really interested in going to Brazil, but right now there are no openings in the Brazilian office. How much does an English teacher make (in reais)? Or how hard is it for someone with experience in Technical Support and certified as an MCSE, to get a job in Brazil? I know you don’t need a lot to get along quite well in Brazil, and sometimes it is even safer if you have less money, or at least don’t show that you have a lot of money.
How is the current situation for hiring someone in Brazil, who speaks German and English as a native speaker, and is fluent speaking and reading Brazilian Portuguese (Eu so tenho algumas problemas quando eu escrevo)? I’m not really interested in looking for anything in the North. in fact I would prefer to work someplace like Florianapolis, Santa Caterina, or São Paulo. I have heard that some of the ultra-rich now commute by helicopter from Florianapolis to São Paulo, because Florianapolis is so much safer. Is this true?
Also, which school or schools do you send your kids to? From what I have heard, the Brazilian Public Schools are absolutely horrible, and Private Schools are expensive. Plus the trip to school can be dangerous sometimes. How have you dealt with this?
Also, how easy is it to get some of the regional specialties from the North in São Paulo. You already mentioned açai and caju., but how about some of the even more exotic stuff like tucupi and cupuaçu? But then again, I think I could even get by on the southern food. My mouth is actually watering as I type just thinking about a nice churrasco and feijoada.
If you happen to have any interesting information that you would prefer not to post, please go ahead and email me (check my profile), but keep the time difference in mind. As I type it is 5:30 PM here, and I probable won’t see your answer on the board until tomorrow.
Oh, and before I forget: “’ Um feliz ano novo cheio de paz e saude, e tudo de bom para voçê e a sua familha”
Lots of variables here, the first place to look is at schools, they don’t pay much (like 14 Reais per hour) but it’s steady. This is also a good place to learn the routine of how to teach. My general freelance rate was $R45.00 per hour and each class was an hour and a half minimum more for rich people and less for some one who was really motivated but didn’t have much money. Don’t forget, German lessons are in demand here as well.
But really the best way to make $$$ at it is to open your own school, and trust me, that does not take much money.
Again, see a head hunter, the MCSE cert is a BIG plus.
i realize your a technition, but being tri-lingual, I wouldnt rule out import/export areas and I also wouldn’t rule out work as a secretary temporarily, that would pay better then teaching.
I don’t know about Florianapolis specifically, but is is very true that LOTS of people take helicopters to work, eather that or drive around in bullet proof cars.
I don’t mean to be rude, but, security wise, I never say where my kid goes to school. Yes, the public schools here are bad, but again this depends on where you are. There are middle of the road private schools that are good also lots of church sponsored schools. As far as danger goes, just keep a low profile, we don’t drive a really fancy car, and I don’t put school stickers in the windows. (There is a wealthy private school here in SP, Porto Seguro, for some reason parents put a school decal in their back window – mabe for parking – but in effect they were “LOOK I HAVE MONEY – COME ROB ME” signs, during orientation at my sons school they specifically said DON’T do this Duuh), we keep a big dog, even though she is a Labrador and friendly, she is very territorial. A lot of people don’t know dogs, they see you with what appears to be a big black dog and cross the street, or pick on another car. As I said above, when my wife takes my kid to school, our dog goes with them. She keeps the back indows down a bit and when ever someone comes up to the car she (the dog, not my wife, silly)sticks her head out the window and starts snarling. No one ever asks us for money.
There is no real source of this kind of stuff, you bring it down yourself, have a friend bring it down, or Mamma sends you a care package. I imagine some little mom and pop outfit might keep stuff like this on hand but it is for specific market.
At the same time? Boy I would explode.
Yeah. Right. Sorry, its been a week – we were out of town for some time. I can’t think of much else except on a public board I’m not comfortable being to detailed,
security is always an issue here, how ever, If you ever decide to really make the move, E-mail me, I would help you out with the details.
[/quote]
I’ve been following this thread with some interests as I have a great deal of family there including my parents who moved back a few years ago.
From what you have mentioned, it sound like the crime in Sao Paulo is getting really bad. My experience and that of my family in Rio has been positive. My parents live in Copacabana and there is no danger walking in the streets in the middle of the night. How dangerous is Sao Paulo comparatively?
Have you noticed any racism there? I’m often surprised at what I’ve heard people say in my presence about those of other colors and religions yet Brazil seems to be a far more mixed county than the United States.
There seems to be a big problem of poverty and crime in Brazil - how likely is it, do you think that Brazil would become a first world country in the near future? Is their a chance at all that these problems will diminish, or is there a sense that that they will not be solved?
A BIG nuisance, both personally and with regard to public health. Last night for example I didn’t sleep very well because the mosquitoes kept making a meal of my ears! We had American style screens installed on our apartment and this helped a lot, but somehow the little buggers still manage to find their way in! We also have this little apparatus that plugs into a wall socket in each room, it consists of a switch, a heater and a small bottle of poison, it constantly vaporizes an imperceptible mist of poison into the air, not enough for you to notice but enough to make the mosquitoes choose another room. The poison (says the bottle) is esbiotrina, what ever THAT is. From a public health stand point its a big concern as we are having an epidemic of Dengue fever, there is a huge public awareness campaign going on right now about how to not let water accumulate in old tires and such, and put old coffee grounds in your planters so as not to give excessive breeding habitats to the little monsters.
** brujo ** wrote…
Well, I think this is something that is heavy on my mind of late because I personally know 2 people that were kidnapped (separate incidences) and several that have been either car jacked or robbed at stoplights. Also I make the mistake of watching the daily “Cidade Alerta” (City Alert). This is a total yellow journalism news show, not at all objective, taking “bad news sells best” to new levels. A crack news squad cruzes the town looking for the ugliest happenings of the day, then its presented by this agitated guy in the studio, complete with raised voice and horror film music in the background. “MAN SHOT TO DEATH DURING ROBERY!” Cut to film clips of crying wife and kids, sprinkled with clips of bloody crime scene. Then the news anchor launches in to “Damn, can you BELEVE what is going on out there! WHERE ARE THE POLICE!” 5 years of this will color your thinking. In any case, I have walked around late at night many times with no problems, I think it just depends on where you are. I cant speak for Rio as I don’t know the place very well, but people I know who live there say it is not nearly as bad as São Paulo, just as the folks who live in S.P. say things like “Could be worse, at least we don’t live in Rio!” From what I can see, watching the responsible news broadcasts and reading the papers I should think its about the same, but that’s just my impression, I have no statistics.
And from what I have discovered, they wouldn’t.
This will be a bit long, but I wanted to know about this as well, I had always herd this but never in a stronger capacity then an urban legend. Soooo hear is my take on it (with sites!).
Note: this site is in Portuguese, I will translate the bits that concern the legend, and if you wish you can go back and read it yourself to confirm, also, please forgive my translation mistakes - if you see any - in advance.*
So ,(to quote Cecil), time for the wool gathering:
Dom Pedros family left him in charge of Brazil, he then declared Brazil as independent, and took the title Emperor. He had a very well known love affair with a woman named Domitila de Castro e Melo, who was from a family of some note. She was known to be a “stunningly beautiful brown woman” and the Emperor managed to secure a title for her, but was unable to get his parents to recognize her as a Queen, and married him off to a princess from Bavaria. (Love stinks huh). Here is the only Image I could find of her at the top, second from left. She doesn’t look very “brown” to me but perhaps this is some marketing effort on the part of Dom Pedro to his parents.
Who knows?
Not like in the States. I have never heard or seen ANY overt racism here except once, in a luncheonette. This real old codger with a German accent was bitching about black folks from the north, one guy (Korean?) finally just told him to shut up, everyone else got a big laugh out of the show between the grumpy old man and the younger guy. Gramps left in a huff.
Now I will say there are quarters of the city that are predominantly Japanese or Chinese or
Korean. These groups seem to value their cultural Identity but otherwise don’t make big effort to segregate themselves (that I can see), I have also seen this in the Orthodox Jewish
communities as well, but nothing like Los Angeles. As far as interracial marriage goes, it’s just a non topic, if you mention it either way, (outside the context of social comparisons with other countries) people scratch their heads and say “What?”. It would be like opening up a discussion about the sky being blue, and how you feel about it. Most people wouldn’t even understand why you care. Again,as I mentioned in another answer, the big social hate here is over who has money and who doesn’t, so it ain’t like this is utopia, people just have bigger things to worry about then who marries who, IMHO.
** gex gex ** wrote…
Bigger brains than mine are thinking about this too! I feel if there were a better distribution of wealth, a FAR bigger emphasis on education (at the family level as well a governmental), stricter accountability standards for politicians and a TOTAL overhaul of the justice system then, yeah. As it stands, I don’t see Brazil as a third world country, I see it as an emerging country. As long as foreign investment continues to roll in, I think these problems will diminish. I have seen changes for the better over the last 5 years in that the police are far more professional and better equipped, and I have seen the press demanding accountability from corrupt politicians which never used to happen except in extreme cases and now the government is giving small cash incentives to parents who make their kids go to school. If what I have seen over the last 8-9 years continues, then in maybe 50 years or so the country will be right on par with any other world player. Hope is alive and well here, and many people are working for changes all across the board. The changes come slow and are often hard won, but they do happen.
Janx, I want to personally thank you for the answers you’ve given in this thread. I’ve learned alot from your posts, and appreciate the effort you’ve made in answering the various questions.
Regarding the Marquesa de Santos, that was a fascinating bit of history that I was not aware of. I’ve learned something new today thanks to you.
I should qualify my original statement. Most of the comments I’ve heard have to do with the nordestinos. Most of the comments have do with them coming to the city and bringing poverty etc., etc.
On my last trip to Rio, I made it a point to ask many relatives and family friends I encountered about their views on crime. One statement a fellow made was this: “I trust the criminals more than I trust the police.”
When the subject was discussed with each person, I repeated the quote and asked if it was true. Almost everybody agreed :eek:
When asked about the presence of crime, all provided me stories of robberies at machine-gun-point at bottlenecks on major roads and so forth. Every single one of them immediately followed this up by saying “Thank the Lord, I have never been mugged.”
The only person I know who actually was mugged was one of my wife’s cousins who went to Rio to exchange money for dollars to come visit many years ago. He was robbed in a much-more typical big-city fashion: a guy had followed him from the place and held him up and took the cash. Happens all of the time in the States.
Nevertheless, even while walking in New York City (which I was taught to fear by my mother) we don’t consider machine-gun robberies a possibility. Maybe this is what keeps me from making the plunge and moving south.
Aren’t those shows amazing? There’s two things that seem to always be present when I view a Brazilian news broadcast:
[ul][li]Close-up images of financial documents with highlighted lines shown with a voiceover explaining the latest corrupt politician’s acitivities.[/li]Bloody crime scenes, complete with interviews of the crying victims/relatives.[/ul]
I have always been asked by Brazilians about racism in the USA. When discussing this, they inevitably denied the presence of racism in Brazil.
I have always had this nagging suspicion, however, that there is some form of racism present that is accepted, and not yet recognized as racism.
An example: My wife told me of a radio program she listened to where the DJ’s were cracking jokes about the news, and she gave me this example: One of the guy was telling how earlier that day “Algum macaco” (some monkey) had committed a crime. This usage is no different from saying “monkey” as a derogitory term in English. Maybe Howard Stern might go for that, but it seemed not to be “shock jock” material to her. Likewise, I frequently hear people using terms that have the same mid-level-racist feel as saying “colored people”
Have you ever had any experiences that would support or refute this suspicion?
On the racial subject, take a look at this interesting concept:
I think the difference is that he was not necessarily refering to someone of African descent when calling the criminal a “macaco”. It could just as well have been some poor ‘nordestino’ or ‘indio’ or someone else poor. I think racism is not really a factor in Brazilian society. Like Janx said, mixed race marriages are completely normal. But there is very much a ‘classism’. The poor are discriminated against, not people of a certain color or race. That is why someone else said that money will ‘whiten’ you. As a side note, sometimes the term ‘macaco’ can be quite fitting. I know for a fact, that near the ‘parc zoologico’ in Belém, there are some huge mango trees, that thieves like to use as observation posts. Basically they climb the tree, wait for dark, wait for someone walking alone, and then they jump out of the tree, very much like a ‘macaco’.
Oh, and Janx, thank you very much for your great answers. I can understand your hesitation in naming your kids’ school. I know some members of my wife’s family have the kids chauffered (sp?) to school every day. This is after one of my nephews was robbed of his shoes at knife point in broad daylight. :eek: I think it was one of the ‘macacos’ mentioned above. I heard that kidnapping has become the ‘crime de rigeur’ in São Paulo at the moment. If you have a halfway decent car, someone might try to kidnap you for a ransom of a couple of hundred dollars. :eek:
And on a further note, those ‘yellow journalism news shows’ are really addictive. In Belém, the best one is called ‘Barra Pesada’, and I would watch it every day!!! Where else can you see live interviews with criminals right from the ‘delegaçia’. The interviewer in Belém would always ask them questions like: “How could you be so stupid? So, what are you now going to do with your worthless self?”, etc. These shows would then be followed by the nightly ‘novela’, which I invariably loved!!! Brazilian ‘novelas’ are the best. American soap operas don’t even come close!!!
But, I think (just like you do) the most important thing to improve the situation in Brazil is education. If you look at the average age of the population in Brazil, it is actually becoming lower right now (in contrast to most European countries, that are becoming nations of senior citizens). And sadly, most of these young people don’t even have the chance of a decent education (both in school and, sadly, at home). And without an education they don’t have much of a future. Unfortunately, I can imagine things becoming even worse if something isn’t done about educating the masses in Brazil. And I don’t just mean school education. I know quite a few Brazilian families, and to me their way of raising children is almost medieval (I hope you know what I mean).
Thanks again for your great answers, and if I ever do take the step to move to Brazil, I will definitely be in touch.
Your welcome! Makes me happy to see that the thread is informative, that was the intention, also to show support for “Ask the…” threads – PLUS that’s the first time a moderator ever complemented a thread of mine. I wonder if we could get Cecil to do the same thing. Hmmmm
** brujo ** wrote
Yes I hear that a lot, but this is not necessarily
racism, I see this more as this is classicism. And incidentally I see both sides participating in this. Using public transport, being in the health care biz and frequenting the same luncheonettes and bars as the regular folks I notice that the poorer side of society does not like to mix with the wealthier
and visa versa. I take a good bit of chiding being from the other side of the tracks.
** minor7flat5 ** wrote
Yup, that’s the word, I have found out that most people think it’s best not to involve the police in any matter unless it is absolutely necessary, though
(knock on wood) so far most of my interactions with the police have been positive or at least ambiguous but not bad.
The two times I was robbed, I was robbed at gunpoint on the street, walking in relatively deserted areas – during the day!
Well, when I think racism, I think crosses being burned on your front lawn, being beaten because your the wrong color, being denied a place to live because your the wrong color etc. etc. To be sure, stereotypes
are alive and well here but nothing as blatant as seen in the USA.
Sounds to me like he was using the term in the more common sense. Around here, if you call someone a monkey it’s pretty much the equivalent of calling some one a “bone head” or an Idiot, I have yet to learn any derogatory terms used to single out one particular race, such as Ni**er, Spck, Chnk etc.
Sorry, I think this guy is full of hops. What he is doing is assigning racial values to an economic situation, giving the reader the idea that it is more desirable to be white in this society (which bespeaks a certain racism on his part).
For example: There are lots of very exclusive athletic clubs here in são Paulo, the only requirement is that you can pay your yearly membership fees and your monthly dues, nobody cares what color you are, the thing that excludes people is weather they have money or not. And I see this every day. If you do a crime here and the police put you in the clink, the first question they ask is weather you went to university, If you have, you are put in tanks for educated people – segregated again by class NOT color.
** Dr_Paprika ** wrote
Há! I never saw it, but at first glance I thought you were talking about O.J. Simpson!
** Mycroft Holmes ** wrote
I just wanted to second everything you wrote!
This is the case, hit and run kidnappings. They grab you call your family
And take what they can get, often times people don’t even bother to call the police.
** Czarcasm ** wrote
Your welcome! Makes me happy to see that the thread is informative, that was the intention, also to show support for “Ask the…” threads – PLUS that’s the first time a moderator ever complemented a thread of mine. I wonder if we could get Cecil to do the same thing. Hmmmm
** brujo ** wrote
Yes I hear that a lot, but this is not necessarily
racism, I see this more as this is classicism. And incidentally I see both sides participating in this. Using public transport, being in the health care biz and frequenting the same luncheonettes and bars as the regular folks I notice that the poorer side of society does not like to mix with the wealthier
and visa versa. I take a good bit of chiding being from the other side of the tracks.
** ** wrote
** minor7flat5 ** wrote
Yup, that’s the word, I have found out that most people think it’s best not to involve the police in any matter unless it is absolutely necessary, though
(knock on wood) so far most of my interactions with the police have been positive or at least ambiguous but not bad.
The two times I was robbed, I was robbed at gunpoint on the street, walking in relatively deserted areas – during the day!
Well, when I think racism, I think crosses being burned on your front lawn, being beaten because your the wrong color, being denied a place to live because your the wrong color etc. etc. To be sure, stereotypes
are alive and well here but nothing as blatant as seen in the USA.
Sounds to me like he was using the term in the more common sense. Around here, if you call someone a monkey it’s pretty much the equivalent of calling some one a “bone head” or an Idiot, I have yet to learn any derogatory terms used to single out one particular race, such as Ni**er, Spck, Chnk etc.
Sorry, I think this guy is full of hops. What he is doing is assigning racial values to an economic situation, giving the reader the idea that it is more desirable to be white in this society (which bespeaks a certain racism on his part).
For example: There are lots of very exclusive athletic clubs here in são Paulo, the only requirement is that you can pay your yearly membership fees and your monthly dues, nobody cares what color you are, the thing that excludes people is weather they have money or not. And I see this every day. If you do a crime here and the police put you in the clink, the first question they ask is weather you went to university, If you have, you are put in tanks for educated people – segregated again by class NOT color.
** Dr_Paprika ** wrote
Há! I never saw it, but at first glance I thought you were talking about O.J. Simpson!
** Mycroft Holmes ** wrote
I just wanted to second everything you wrote!
This is the case, hit and run kidnappings. They grab you call your family
And take what they can get, often times people don’t even bother to call the police.
