Ask the Artist

Can you share some thoughts on what makes art good versus what makes it salable?

What have you struggled with most in each medium and what have you enjoyed the most in each? I love working in charcoal, acrylics, and watercolor and each seem to have their own benefits and setbacks.

Do you have any tips for someone who would like to paint landscapes or portraiture? I’ve always enjoyed drawing and charcoal for this, but with painting I can’t seem to wrap my head around it and end up doing abstract work instead.

Do you have a favorite project you’ve worked on, or a subject/theme that has repeated itself?

Also, panache, just because you get IN a gallery is no guarantee you’ll sell anything.

If you look online at galleries in smaller markets (not the major markets like NYC), you’ll see they usually have several different genres and media represented. There’ll be the dreamy watercolorist doing florals, the bold landscapes in oil, the graphite grandkid portraits, the stark photographs, etc. It’s pretty similar from place to place. If you can find one that doesn’t have YOUR medium/style represented, then you stand a better chance of filling a niche.

If you want them to take you on as a “Hey, celebrate ME!” proposition, then you need to show that you are a “me” already. That’s the reason for the rejections - it’s not necessarily anything at all to do with the quality of your work. It’s all about selling. Which isn’t BAD, per se; it’s just the way it is.

That’s the big myth, breaking reality — people imagine that there are Art Gods with magic wands, and once you’re blessed that’s IT. Nope. Nobody’s blessing anyone. Salability has to do with meeting the buyer’s needs.

OTOH, the quality of the work has everything to do with the respect of your peers and the art community. And having a reason to continue working - who wants to spend years & years spinning their wheels? Forward progress is the thing.

Another important thing is to GO to the art openings in the city in which you want to be in a gallery. Go and talk to people. See what’s selling. See what’s missing. Don’t send out random packets of slides (or CD’s, nowadays). Waste of time and postage.

I’ve got to work now, will answer rest of your question later - thanks for asking :cool:

  1. How do you make your money? Is it through selling through galleries? Or sitting at fairs and doing portraits? Something else?

  2. How do you decide what a painting is worth? Hours put in? Size? Cost of materials? Artistic merit?

  3. How much do you fight the [often] competing desires of painting what you want and painting what sells?

  4. How do you manage painting to spec? What’s it like to paint something that you may not agree with, but the client wants?

  5. How do you measure your progress? How do you know you’re better? I imagine that your technique improves, but does the ‘meaning’ of what you’re painting deepen? Do your choices improve?

  6. Where do you fall in the art vs. commerce argument? Do you dislike fellow artists who sell well, but don’t have a ton of artistic merit (say, Kincade)? Or do you respect that they make a lot of people happy with their art?

Regarding all the questions about making a living as an artist, at least to me it’s kinda mysterious how something so nebulous as ‘art’ is able to provide a stable income. Especially in painting where the difference between ‘pretty good’ and ‘amazing’ is often difficult for a layman to determine.

This part really jumped out at me (I will answer everything though :)) – it used to AMAZE me that my husband would spend money on pieces of cardboard paper that had pictures of athletes on it. Some of those pictures were worth a lot of money! He’d put these pieces of cardboard in PVC-free plastic sheets, then carefully store them away and haul them out and flip through them.

And people traded them – whole stores existed to sell them. Magazines and books were published that described their relative values.

I was always like WTF? How do those pieces of cardboard with ink on them have that much meaning and value? And what on earth do they have to do with sports or athletes?

Baffling.

:wink:

I guess athletic success (tied to tangible statistics) leads to increased value of trading cards. Plus, supply and demand plays into it.

Supply and demand can also play into the value of art and I can get my head around the ‘supply’ part. There’s only so many Rembrandts around, but the demand part is baffling to a non-artist. The work of the ‘Masters’ is valuable because of their fame and ability, but what about the work of two non-famous, good artists? How come one guy who paints trees can sell his art for way more than another guy who paints pretty good paintings of trees?

Maybe I’m coming off as dismissive of art, but I’m totally not. I’m legitimately baffled by how value is determined and would love to hear from somebody who has to determine the value of their own art. I’m not saying art is not valuable, I’m just wondering how that value is determined.

Good art makes visual “sense”, just like a good story makes sense. Learning to “read” the visual “language” is a complicated issue :slight_smile: I can’t summarize it quickly & easily. BUT, I will tell you that the general public has a GREAT sense of it, by and large. Taste preferences vary, some people prefer one style or subject versus another; but I find that (for the most part) they DO buy my best work, and they skip the weaker stuff. I love that. I learn from them.

Oils - I tend to over-mix my colors & they get muddy. For me, working fast & focusing on large shapes helps. But the odor - ugh! I have asthma (I think it’s from painting in my bedroom w/real turpentine when I was a teenager). So I can’t use them unless I’m outdoors.

Acrylics - I just started trying these again, after many years of ignoring them, because of my problems w/oil fumes. The quick-dry thing is a PITA, but the glazing/layer part is fascinating. I’m finding the color mixing a bit weird - getting cerulean to go dark isn’t as easy as I expected. Frankly I think poster paint (depending on the brand) is easier, I’ve gotten wonderful tints & shades with that & it dries fast, too. I paint on gessoed masonite w/poster paint - use the bumpy side & it looks just like canvast :slight_smile: Weighs a ton, though.

Watercolor - yeah, watercolor is kind of crazy. You have to give up so much control - and then, the working light-to-dark part is counter-intuitive. The way watercolor is taught cracks me up, all that wet-on-wet bloom business & the masking. Whatever. I find good effects when I toy with the water more, varying how much pigment I use and playing with it across the surface. That’s just my preference.

Charcoal - Ahhh, yes! I loves me some charcoal, too! I like it best on toothy newsprint (not the recycled kind, though). SO much control :slight_smile:

You know what, try copying some work that you like. That’s what Shane always says - the best way to learn is to copy the masters :slight_smile: I found landscapes a lot easier once I got a sense of the greys/browns – they make the color “sit”. Before that, it was all so jumpy to me.

For portraits, if you REALLY want to learn to draw people, find someone who teaches the Bargue method. Old-school, hard-core stuff. Tedious as all get out - but accurate. When I’m trying to draw and am NOT inspired/connected w/the subject, then I go to Bargue techniques.

Yes - I paint light on buildings & have been doing that for years. I also love neighborhoods at night, have some of those I did in college & am still doing them now. I’m working at letting go of control, too, and letting more of it “happen” - that gave me some dancing Coke bottles many years ago & it’s something I’m working toward again. When you do a lot of art, you find it kind of taking over - that’s how the Coke bottles started dancing, I’d painted different configurations of them a dozen times (I was temping for Coca-Cola then, & the office was full of their posters) and one day they just went very exaggerated on me. I sold a couple of nudes the other day that are from a similar moment - I’ve been drawing nudes forever, and I generally try to be accurate - but on one particular occasion this really exaggerated effect came out instead. I held onto the drawing for years & finally hung it the other day in a group show & whaddya know, it sold. I hadn’t expected to sell any nudes in this particular market.

Try water-soluble oils or the Open line of Acrylics from Golden. Open is a slow-drying acrylic paint, it takes days to dry, not minutes. Water-soluble or water-mixable oils clean up with soap and water, no fumes.

I’d guess that it’s because many of us fancy ourselves as (at least amateur) artists of one type or another, and we’re curious about the idea of trying to make it financially as an artist.

FYI, I’m an amateur writer and photographer. Also, I create weird shit with Photoshop. But don’t have he guts to try selling any of it, let alone make a living at it.

When I started doing this full-time, I assumed that the most profitable thing I’d be doing is drawing quick portraits. But actually that hasn’t been the case - my fine art has been popular (I’ve gotten great reviews in our local press) and profitable. And yeah, I also take commissions. You name it, I’ll paint on it, of it, or with it :slight_smile: It helps that I’m very social.

All of the above :slight_smile: Size/materials/framing are a factor, as is time. And the market - you don’t want to be the cheapest, or the most expensive, work of art in the gallery. And you REALLY don’t want to have to lower your prices. Better to start low and build. My original work’s in the $100-$400 range. I like the people who come in to buy work at those prices. I also sell giclee prints for $20-40.

Just paint a whole bunch :slight_smile: There have been spells where I’ve taken on too many commissions & gotten a little burnt out. And then they’ll dry up a bit, and I’ll be busy getting ready for a show. And then I’ll want some fast cash & whaddya know, some more commissions will roll in.

It’s important to have a good relationship with your gallery. It’s a partnership. The gallery owner isn’t there to take care of you, don’t expect them to do more for you than you do for yourself. My gallery is awesome, she gives me lots of freedom to do what I want & space to show it, and in return I’ve brought in more artists & created several successful events. She’ll tell me what people have said about the work, both positive and (once in a while) negative.:stuck_out_tongue: Some people didn’t like my frames, I needed to change the way I handled those.

It’s all a learning process; no particular piece takes forever, eventually it’s time for the next one. Balance is good though - it’s good to switch back to just fine art sometimes. I can only think of one client who I didn’t like a bit, but part of the problem there was that I let her push me around. I learned.

My energy has improved - my presence on the page is stronger. When I look back, I see tentativeness in my older work. I see too much eagerness to please in my old work> It’s funny, how much of yourSELF you can see in your work, when you look back.

Kincade? You know, I just really don’t happen to care for him :smiley: I’m sure there will always be people like that in the world, and it’s not my problem or my business. What I resent is that he’s passed off as “fine art” when he’s nowhere near it.

I did critique one of his paintings, it’s right here. The piece I referred to isn’t on the front page of his website any longer (it’s been 9 years) but since they’re all the same it doesn’t really matter.

It’s just branding, though. This piece of paper is only linked to that athlete because I said so.

Well, for one thing it’s not necessarily always right and fair.

And there are plenty of times when a painting of trees has other meaning that makes it more valuable - often because of historical significance. It might be the first time trees were seen in that particular way, or using a particular medium, or in combination with other elements.

The analogy kind of runs out re: trees, because nobody’s all that fascinated with them by and large. Now, talk about paintings of people and there are all sorts of examples where historical significance or the artist’s approach is what makes a piece valuable. People’s way of seeing other people has changed vastly in the last couple thousand years, and it’s represented in artwork.

That’s the confusing thing about museums - often the aesthetics of the art are specific to the era in which it was created. It’s about context, as seen through the curator’s eyes.

Museums in small towns can be horrible - I’ve seen plenty of godawful crappy drawings by famous artists hanging in prominent spots in little museums. They may be historically significant, but damn, they’re still lousy drawings. I just shake my head.

Now, in terms of learning to discern small differences that make one piece “better” than another (and by “better” I’m saying that a roomful of critics would reach a consensus) – that’s your question, right?

Well, my question for you is – how many books are allowed to be in the library? Is it necessary to rank them all by merit? Is it even possible to rank them all by merit? Isn’t there room in the world for Stephen King and William Shakespeare?

You want me to explain how Sotheby’s gets those prices for art? Explain how they get those prices for anything! It’s the buyer’s perception, and the history of the goods in the marketplace. And the fickle hand of fate :slight_smile:

Now------ is there a point to art school? Is there anything that can be learned/taught? YES. There’s visual grammar - composition, contrast, texture, hue, shading, etc etc etc. There’s putting your drawings on the wall when you’ve all had the same assignment & looking at how other people solved the visual problem at hand.

Art school critiques aren’t about “good/bad” judgments – instead the other students and the teacher reflect back on the visual experience they are having. “My eye goes right off the page at that strong line.” And “My eye dances through this middle section and is intrigued.” That kind of thing. The artist offers something and other people reflect their experience of what’s been offered. And then the artist can judge whether they reached their goals.

Yeah, it takes a long time :slight_smile:

But you know what - if you get into the habit of looking at good art, you will recognize its sensibility. You’ll notice, subconsciously perhaps, that it’s rich in content – that it has internal logic, that your eye is entertained, that you have a feeling of life taking place. That’s a beginning. That’s fine.

Those critics in a room, trying to judge the merits of one painting versus another, they’re going to be people who’ve spent time critiquing and training their eyes. They’re going to have an ability to see far more than most people.

And sometimes they’ll be wrong :cool:

I remember when those water-soluble oils came out, I think I tried the ones from Grumbacher & they were lousy then - goopy crap in drab colors. Have they changed much?

I haven’t tried Open, and I do like Golden a lot. Is that better than just using a retardant? I thought I’d bought some slow-dry the other day but I grabbed the wrong bottle & it’s just liquid medium. Oops.

Thanks for your suggestions :slight_smile:

The Mix 1 flat is my favorite, that’s fun :slight_smile: Yeah, photography is a crowded field, I’d imagine it’s really difficult to be a standout.

One thing I learned - there’s no “I changed X number of elements” threshold beyond which using someone else’s work (like that Munch) becomes legally acceptable. Not that you can’t DO it, but if you start making money at it and they find you, they’ll want the money. I’ve seen the subject mentioned on crafty messageboards with people asserting that if you make a certain number of changes, you’re okay. NOT the case. You are free to work in someone else’s style (it’s called being “derivative”) but if you’re a serious artist, you credit them in your title “Orange Jello (after Warhol)”.

You know, you’re always free to try selling your stuff. There’s no art police out there, no magic jury who’s going to come after you. Other than not using anyone else’s work, there’s no law being broken - Crowds of people aren’t going to scoff and tell you to leave. The bad reaction artists get is typically just indifference. And usually even that isn’t universal - typically a few people will respond well, even if not everyone does.

It does cost money, though. Printing, framing, booth fees, time - it gets expensive.

The thing about it is, there’s no unconditional love.

That might be the main difference between amateurs and professionals. Amateurs are looking at their art as a route to unconditional love and professionals don’t care about that anymore.

For me, it’s made my work much better.

What an interesting thread! I appreciate all the thoughtful answers.

As for the Alzheimer’s woman, it sounds to me like you capture someone’s personality in your portraits, and hers wasn’t there to be captured anymore.

Thank you, Brynda.

Yep, that’s exactly right. It’s all in how we hold ourselves.

I love the one of Linda Blair.

Thank you, fessie, for the interesting thread and showing us your work.

I scribble in my spare time and have asked why i don’t I sell my drawings.
Here a few examples:
Example #1
Example #2
Example #3
Examples #1 and #2 were done using photos found on the web, #3 was done from
life. About 95% of my drawings are pen and ink.

I guess my question is: where do I go from here? I have been thinking it might be
nice to do something beyond filling up a sketch book, throwing on the shelf and
buying a fresh sketchbook. (And a few extra dollars might be nice too.)

Aw, she was a cute teenager. Did that drawing in 6 minutes.

Those lines are beautiful. Your sense of anatomy could use some strengthening (so could everyone else’s, that not a putdown). What do you want to do?

If you want to sell your work, then you need to work from your own photographs. Photographers who’ve published their work have all rights to the image - the fact that you’ve changed the medium is immaterial.

If you want your next sketch book to be full of better drawings than your last one contained, then take a drawing class. Again, that’s not a putdown - the best artist I’ve ever met is still taking classes. The second-best artist I ever met studied for years & years & years (and gave up on trying to earn a living at art, went into construction management instead).

On the other hand, if you want to find an audience for who you are right here, right now, you can probably do that if you’re willing to put in the time. Like, say you find a convention of railroad enthusiasts & set up a little table & set your (matted) drawings on little easels - you might well sell some. You might get a lot of praise for your work and it could be a lot of fun

You could also improve just by studying other artists. Stick with museums if you like, you’ll find a higher concentration of competence there. I think you’ll notice that their drawings have a wider range of values than you’re using - the lights are lighter, the darks are darker. You might find yourself saying “I like that part of that drawing by so-and-so, but I think I’d do a better job with this aspect” and you might well be right :slight_smile:

Couple of months ago I decided that having art books on my bookshelf gathering dust was stupid. So instead, I cut out a couple dozen paintings and drawings that I like and tacked them up all over my bedroom walls. It’s wonderful, living with them. Of course they’re small, and they’re not as nice as my posters, but still - it was cheap, and inspiring.

Seems like this link to **Art Business **is something people here might enjoy