Ask the Broadcast Professionals (or what would you like to know about advertising)

[ivylass]

@dwc1970

Do all commercials have to be approved or audited/screened by the station before they are aired? Whose job is it to ascertain that a spot is suitable for broadcast?

Sometimes. Considering the vast number of commercials that come in, it’s impossible to screen them all. Sometimes we get commercials even though we don’t have an order for spots. We get on the mailing list for a dubhouse and it takes a while before they stop sending us tapes, although the move is toward sending commercials digitally via Fast Channel or DG Spot Box.

Hopefully any problems with a tape are caught down in master before it goes to air.

What is the most controversial commercial you’ve ever had? What does it take to get an ad pulled from the airwaves?

We’ve kicked back ads for ED because they were too blatant and there are some advertisers we won’t accept because of our demo. Of course, a tape with glitches and dropped frames and audio issues can also be rejected. It’s a pain, because then we have to wait for a replacement to be sent and we may have to pull spots off the log.

@stanger

At some time during prime-time viewing, there will be a commercial break where maybe five or six commercials will run, with all but one or two being car or truck commercials. During the local 10 o-clock news, it is not unusual to see, in one break, four local and/or regional car/ truck commercials in a row.

It would seem to me that the people who want that Ford truck commercial to attract attention would be rather upset if their commercial was directly followed by a Dodge truck commercial, and then later by a Toyota truck commercial all in the same break.

Why does this happen?

That’s very typical during local news. Generally, at that level, stations will differentiate between new import vs used import vs new truck vs used truck vs new domestic vs used domestic. So a Ford truck spot followed by an Audi commercial spot followed by a used Buick car spot can be argued to be “different categories.” These are local dealers, not national car manufacturers, so the pod exclusivity is different.

kunilou, I will add that we used to get a list from Proctor and Gamble of what shows they couldn’t air in. Talk shows like Jenny Jones could be blacked out depending on the topic.

Also, not to be stuck up, but TV advertising is more effective than radio advertising. Pictures and sound vs just sound, you know. More people watch TV all day than listen to the radio all day.

[Nava]

Two weeks ago, I was at Mom’s, having lunch with her and LittleBro. Bro managed to keep his eyes glued to the Formula1 while eating and not throw any food on himself, which I found quite a feat. Anyway, at some point advertising came in, right on the clock with no regard to what was going on. Fernando Alonso was just out of boxes.

The ads were running on most of the screen, while a smaller rectangle in a corner showed the race. A Renault started blowing black smoke during some ad or other… then (when the car was already smoking and we were all wondering “is that Alonso or the other guy?”) the new Renault ad (“the safest brand”) came on.

We considered that they should have cut on the ads just in general terms; having an ad on how safe Renaults are while a Renault was being shown blowing smoke seemed particularly… prone to produce the opposite of the desired effect. Mind you, they may have gotten a lot of hits just from the “zapping” programs, programs that run bits taken from other programs.

Do you guys think that, in the presence of a Big Event, they should have cut the ads, gone back to the race and just play the rest of the ads a bit later, after the event was done? What would the consequences of this be? Do you think that the “extra hits” from zapping programs would outweigh the benefits of the specific image being displayed (i.e., “it’s good when they talk about you, even if what they say is bad”)?

[ivylass]

Nava, if I understand your question, an ad for Renault came on during a race in which a Renault was damaged? You’re asking if the Renault ad should have been pulled?

The decision on when to pull a spot cannot come from master control, it has to come from sales through traffic. Traffic is the department at a broadcast facility that handles the scheduling of all the commercials and the creation of the daily logs. Traffic works in advance. Typically, Friday’s log is done and down in master by Thursday at the latest.

Now, if a major catastrophe happens, advertisers may request that their spots be pulled. If an airplane crashes, typically, all airplane ads will be pulled. During Sept 11, we were yanking spots off the air right and left, not just airplane ads, but rental car companies, financials, etc.

It takes time to react, however, and sometimes it may not occur to master that a spot should be pulled if it happens after normal work hours. If something jumps out at them, they call traffic. Also, the advertiser may have wanted to be in a particular show and will not pay for the spot if it airs someplace else. Also, if a spot is pulled, traffic has to find another spot to run in its place, which may not be that easy.

In the situation you described, I would imagine things happened so fast there was no way to pull the Renault spot and find a replacement.

[Sunrazor]

@ivylass

Also, not to be stuck up, but TV advertising is more effective than radio advertising. Pictures and sound vs just sound, you know. More people watch TV all day than listen to the radio all day.

I knew if I watched this thread long enough, you’d get around to this. To which I reply: Apples and oranges, lass, apples and oranges. We do not sell visual image, we sell top of mind awareness. Y’know how a song gets stuck in your head, and you keep humming it over and over again? That’s us. That’s why we sell our ads in bulk and at such great rates. Repetition is required in radio advertising.

A completely unrelated argument is that, in small markets like ours (rural Colorado) nobody can afford TV advertising, and if they could, they’d have to advertise to the entire Denver metroplex. Our clients only need to advertise to the local community, and they have to do it on a budget. The overwhelming majority of people in our communities aren’t at home watching TV during the day – they’re working. And they have the radio on in their offices, their shops and their stores.

Finally, we work hard at building an audience (promotions, giveaways, etc.) Our listeners know our cues for “Hey, important stuff coming up, listen closely!” Clients pay dearly for those moments, and there’s a waiting list for every one of our in-show events.

[ivylass]

Sunrazor, I am not saying one is better than the other. I am saying one is more effective than the other. Both are more effective than newspaper, and I think they’re both more effective that billboards.

Each have their advantages, depending on who you’re trying to reach, but overall, IMHO, I’d say TV is more effective than radio.

In any event, I welcome you to the thread! Can you give us a perspective from the radio side?

[The_Scrivener]

I love threads like this, that actually explain some aspect of our world.

1. Is there some independent media tracking service that anyone could subscribe to that logs and collates every ad that plays on every network, indie, and cable station? If there isn’t one, how do ad buyers verify the veracity of station/network reports as to what ads were aired when? (And do you know if the logging is mostly computerized somehow, or do they actually have to hire people to do all the fast-forwarding and logging?)

2. How do station Traffic depts. and media buyers cope with the unpredictable duration (and even content) of sports programming? For ex., a college football game may run into triple OT; and even regulation games vary considerably in their times. How do you line up enough ads to fill a really long game without disappointing advertisers if the game ends a bit sooner and not all their ads get played? Are there some unusually elastic clauses in the contracts for the placement of ads during sporting events?

3. How do advertisers react to game-coverage switches? Again, to use college football as an example, it’s not at all unusual for a runaway game to be dropped, as early as the third quarter, for another game (that’s either winding down or starting up) in another conference – and those conferences have obvious geographic differences, with associated demographics and ratings implications. Let’s say a runaway SEC game is dropped at the 40-minute point for a PAC-10 game that’s also in the third quarter… do your markets in Alabama and Georgia complain that they’re not getting what they paid for, while those in Oregon and Washington reap an unpaid benefit? Is there some retroactive fiscal balancing of the accounts?

[ivylass]

@The Scrivener

1. Is there some independent media tracking service that anyone could subscribe to that logs and collates every ad that plays on every network, indie, and cable station? If there isn’t one, how do ad buyers verify the veracity of station/network reports as to what ads were aired when? (And do you know if the logging is mostly computerized somehow, or do they actually have to hire people to do all the fast-forwarding and logging?)

Broadcast outlets use traffic software systems. Invoices are generated that show the time, show, ISCI code and rate of the spot aired, which get sent to the agency. The trend is toward EDI, or electronically transmitting the data so it gets uploaded into the agency’s system, and it can easily match up what was ordered vs what aired.

2. How do station Traffic depts. and media buyers cope with the unpredictable duration (and even content) of sports programming? For ex., a college football game may run into triple OT; and even regulation games vary considerably in their times. How do you line up enough ads to fill a really long game without disappointing advertisers if the game ends a bit sooner and not all their ads get played? Are there some unusually elastic clauses in the contracts for the placement of ads during sporting events?

Different outlets have different contigencies. “Overtime breaks” might be sold, in which a list of advertisers is sold time, knowing their spots may not air if the sports event ends on time. Some stations simply go to the first break of the event and start re-airing commercials, in which case the client gets those for free. Sometimes the station will steal spots scheduled to air in the show immediately following the sports event to fill the extra breaks in the sports event.

Networks are obliged to fill time if an event runs short to the nearest half hour. After that, the network or the affiliate can provide replacement programming.

3. How do advertisers react to game-coverage switches? Again, to use college football as an example, it’s not at all unusual for a runaway game to be dropped, as early as the third quarter, for another game (that’s either winding down or starting up) in another conference – and those conferences have obvious geographic differences, with associated demographics and ratings implications. Let’s say a runaway SEC game is dropped at the 40-minute point for a PAC-10 game that’s also in the third quarter… do your markets in Alabama and Georgia complain that they’re not getting what they paid for, while those in Oregon and Washington reap an unpaid benefit? Is there some retroactive fiscal balancing of the accounts?

I’m going to guess at this, since HN can speak better from his side. I would assume that the advertisers are buying live sports and they understand stuff like this happens.

[elmwood]

Do the categories of products advertised on broadcast media differ from market to market, and if so, why? Whenever I’m visiting the 'rents in Buffalo, I noticed that in ads on locally originated and syndicated programming – not network programming – there’s a much higher percentage of lawyer and car dealer commercials than in other cities; maybe 75% of local commercials are for car dealers and attorneys. In El Paso, rehab clinic ads were on all the time; I’ve never seen a rehab clinic aired anyplace else.

[Lakai]

What was most you’ve seen a station overdeliver on rating points? Underdeliver?

[GrandWino]

@Sunrazor

I knew if I watched this thread long enough, you’d get around to this. To which I reply: Apples and oranges, lass, apples and oranges. We do not sell visual image, we sell top of mind awareness. Y’know how a song gets stuck in your head, and you keep humming it over and over again? That’s us. That’s why we sell our ads in bulk and at such great rates. Repetition is required in radio advertising.

A completely unrelated argument is that, in small markets like ours (rural Colorado) nobody can afford TV advertising, and if they could, they’d have to advertise to the entire Denver metroplex. Our clients only need to advertise to the local community, and they have to do it on a budget. The overwhelming majority of people in our communities aren’t at home watching TV during the day – they’re working. And they have the radio on in their offices, their shops and their stores.

Finally, we work hard at building an audience (promotions, giveaways, etc.) Our listeners know our cues for “Hey, important stuff coming up, listen closely!” Clients pay dearly for those moments, and there’s a waiting list for every one of our in-show events.

You’re right, Sunrazor, that it’s apples to oranges. It really depends on each client and their individual needs. That’s why it’s so hard to answer some of these questions in general terms. What works great for Lexus might not work so well for Kelloggs or Motorola.

Some auto buys spend pretty impressive amounts on radio, just for the “top of mind” reasons you mention.

The job of an agency is to work with a client to determine their needs in each market and tailor the buy to that. In some, radio is as important as TV. In others, cable is where they need to be. In some, it’s just television.

[Sunrazor]

@ivylass

Sunrazor, I am not saying one is better than the other. I am saying one is more effective than the other. Both are more effective than newspaper, and I think they’re both more effective that billboards.

Each have their advantages, depending on who you’re trying to reach, but overall, IMHO, I’d say TV is more effective than radio.

In any event, I welcome you to the thread! Can you give us a perspective from the radio side?

Garsh! I just re-read my post. Didn’t mean to be so snotty. Sounded better in my head when I was writing it. Sorry b’out that.

I guess it’s hair-splitting to quibble over “more effective.” Dollar-for-dollar, advertising bucks are all well-spent, if done right. And yes, we learned a long time ago that it’s foolish to sell against other media.

We’re a very small operation (3 stations) so our staff does all the writing, production, etc. for local clients. We find that our clients tend to use us as supplemental to their newspaper advertising (which, because of our demographics here, is surprisingly effective – much more so than in the metro areas.)

Run-of-station 30-second ads are about half of our revenue; the other half is divided equally between program sponsorships and special events (remote broadcasts, special promotions, etc.) As I said, our objective is to achieve top-of-mind awareness. We’re not going to make anybody stop what they’re doing and order a pizza. But if you follow our repetition and placement guidelines, the next time they DO order pizza, they’ll think of you first. Unless you don’t sell pizza, in which case you’ve wasted your time and money. Everybody wants cute, mind-grabbing ads, and we try to do that. We take a lot our image cues from television, then modify it so we can trigger the image aurally.

I’m more on the operations/production side, so that’s pretty much the extent of what I know about it. But there have been huge changes, not just in technology, but in mindset since I was last in radio (about two decades ago.) News isn’t really journalism any more (except on NPR) – we pretend to be serious for about 90 seconds, then yuck it up with the kicker story for another two minutes. The audience loves it. We give stuff away constantly – we go through a dozen T-shirts a day. Advertisers and promoters shower us with product, which we have to give away as fast as we can (documenting each giveaway with a letter to the “donor.” Can you say “payola?”) On the other side of the coin, we are constantly besieged with requests to help with fundraisers. Our jocks love to issue challenges, and our morning man (happens to be my younger brother) prides himself on opening wallets for good causes. He has been known to call bank presidents live on the air and ask them how much they’re gonna’ give to the local Memory Walk or Relay for Life.

We work hard to create the audio image that we are riding this crazy thing to certain self-destruction, and you’d better come along for the ride or you’re gonna’ miss one helluva party. Behind that image, though, are endless meetings, meticulous planning and constant research.

[GrandWino]

@ivylass

@The Scrivener

3. How do advertisers react to game-coverage switches? Again, to use college football as an example, it’s not at all unusual for a runaway game to be dropped, as early as the third quarter, for another game (that’s either winding down or starting up) in another conference – and those conferences have obvious geographic differences, with associated demographics and ratings implications. Let’s say a runaway SEC game is dropped at the 40-minute point for a PAC-10 game that’s also in the third quarter… do your markets in Alabama and Georgia complain that they’re not getting what they paid for, while those in Oregon and Washington reap an unpaid benefit? Is there some retroactive fiscal balancing of the accounts?

I’m going to guess at this, since HN can speak better from his side. I would assume that the advertisers are buying live sports and they understand stuff like this happens.

This sort of thing happens and is just the nature of sports. Often they run long, or short - and we just have to deal with it as it happens.

Honestly, if the game switches, we’d look at the overnight rating and if it performed well enough, no harm/no foul. If it comes up short, we’d probably ask for bonus spots at no/charge to make up the points.

[Sunrazor]

@Sunrazor

I’m more on the operations/production side, so that’s pretty much the extent of what I know about it.

:smack: Meant to say: That’s pretty much the extent of what I know about advertising. Production and ops, that I know bunches about.

[GrandWino]

@Lakai

What was most you’ve seen a station overdeliver on rating points? Underdeliver?

I’ve seen stations underdeliver a single order by 50%. Those stations don’t usually get a very good share of the next buy. I’m not sure about who’s overdelivered the most…this isn’t usually as big a problem, though it’s not ideal. This more reflects on the buyer for not estimating the ratings well enough.

[GrandWino]

@elmwood

Do the categories of products advertised on broadcast media differ from market to market, and if so, why? Whenever I’m visiting the 'rents in Buffalo, I noticed that in ads on locally originated and syndicated programming – not network programming – there’s a much higher percentage of lawyer and car dealer commercials than in other cities; maybe 75% of local commercials are for car dealers and attorneys. In El Paso, rehab clinic ads were on all the time; I’ve never seen a rehab clinic aired anyplace else.

There can be specific products offered in specific markets, all depending on the advertiser. This increases the creative cost though, so most major clients try and keep it the same across a region at least.

You see a higher percentage of lawyers and rehab clinics on local shows because the rates are cheaper and they can run more ads. Most lawyer ads, or any ad that comes w/ a toll free number to call, are called “Direct Response.”

Direct Response buys are basically of the “throw a bunch of shit at a wall and see what sticks” variety. They buy schedules with ridiculously low rates with the understanding that they’ll get run in the bottom tier programming. They have a department that monitors responses for the ads (# of phone calls normally) and if a station isn’t getting very many calls, they’ll reduce the order. They don’t care what they air in, and really don’t have a choice w/ the rate they pay.

[ivylass]

@HelloNinja

Direct Response buys are basically of the “throw a bunch of shit at a wall and see what sticks” variety. They buy schedules with ridiculously low rates with the understanding that they’ll get run in the bottom tier programming. They have a department that monitors responses for the ads (# of phone calls normally) and if a station isn’t getting very many calls, they’ll reduce the order. They don’t care what they air in, and really don’t have a choice w/ the rate they pay.

To throw a wrinkle in this, there are Per Inquiry spots. You’ll see a lot of these on the lower DMA markets, in the smaller affiliates. Basically, these spots are run on consignment. The outlet airs them for free, then based on how many calls they generate, the agency will cut a check to the station. Of course, you have to trust that the agency is reporting the amount of calls correctly.

You may see the same Direct Response spot airing with different 800 numbers. Which one do you call? It doesn’t matter…the 800# is how the agency tracks which outlet is generating the most calls for them. Each outlet will get a spot with a unique 800 number.

[THespos]

Partner in an integrated media agency and 12-year veteran of media planning/buying checking in here.

Most interesting to me are the posts claiming one medium is “more effective” than another. Folks, it all depends on the role of each medium in the mix. One of the first things a reputable agency will teach you in their media training program is that media vehicles work together in an integrated fashion, and that it’s dangerous to look at individual media in a vacuum. In other words, if an advertiser is running television, radio and newspaper, each medium has a role in that mix. People can see different combinations of radio, television and newspaper and the effect of each medium is tremendously difficult to isolate.

Direct Response buys are basically of the “throw a bunch of shit at a wall and see what sticks” variety. They buy schedules with ridiculously low rates with the understanding that they’ll get run in the bottom tier programming. They have a department that monitors responses for the ads (# of phone calls normally) and if a station isn’t getting very many calls, they’ll reduce the order. They don’t care what they air in, and really don’t have a choice w/ the rate they pay.

This is what a lot of people believe about direct response advertising, but it’s just not true. While schedules are purchased cheaply, most DR agencies monitor response and analyze the results of their campaigns on a nearly continuous basis to balance the flow of leads/sales and CPA (Cost Per Acquisition). This is not to be confused with PI (Per Inquiry) advertising, which is similar, but is priced on a different model. Much of DR buying involves purchasing spots cheaply based on audience. PI advertising pays only when the advertiser logs an inquiry. Think of PI as a subset of DR.

Contrary to popular opinion, DR advertisers do care where they run. In fact, they often analyze editorial environment and various factors of where they run in order to glean some intelligence that may direct future buys.

[ivylass]

@Sunrazor

Garsh! I just re-read my post. Didn’t mean to be so snotty. Sounded better in my head when I was writing it. Sorry b’out that.

No worries. I think I’ll let THespos have the final word on which is better. He made a very good point about some media have advantages that others lack, but they all mesh together. I think we can agree a combined blitz across print, media, radio, and TV is effective at getting the word out.

DR clients do look at the demo of a broadcast outlet (I doubt you’ll see Enzyte on Nickelodeon) but they do not receive guaranteed estimates and don’t get ADU weight for underdelivery.

[ivylass]

Crap.

"print [del]media[/del], billboards, radio and TV.

[Nava]

@ivylass

Nava, if I understand your question, an ad for Renault came on during a race in which a Renault was damaged? You’re asking if the Renault ad should have been pulled?

Yep, with both things on screen at the same time.

Your response comes up to pretty much my WAG to Mom and Bro for why they hadn’t cut the ads and gone back to the main scene. Thanks, I feel so intelligent!